Passing emissions

[Paul G]

In Arizona, a new law is waiting EPA approval to exempt from emissions testing, all vehicles built in 1974 and prior. This is good news for us with vehicles in that age group. But, for 1975 and newer vehicle owners, they still have to pass emissions, or try to get classic vehicle status with all it's limitations.

There is a thread on the board about early 80's Mirada's. Great looking cars, as well as the Cordoba's and Magnum's. Even the pickups and SUV's from the era would be very cool to own. Problem is they were all miserable performers. But could be great cruisers and street sleepers with engine transplants and drive train improvements. 

What does it take to pass emissions after doing an engine swap, or adding speed parts? Seems to me a well tuned engine in a pre computerized vehicle, say late 70's or early 80's, would still meet the emission standards. They go on the rollers and get sniffed. As long as it is timed correctly, not too rich, and not too lean, could it pass even with a different or high horse power engine?

[elacruze]

depends on the level of build. I think I could do it with mine, with EFI and relatively mild camshaft. But, you would have to tune specifically for the emissions test and you probably couldn't drive it that way. On a high-compression engine, typically the timing has to be very retarded to get NoX emissions down, and a big cam produces a ton of hydrocarbons so you're caught in the middle.

[flyinlow]

I think the 1975 cut off is to catch people removing the catalytic converters. Depends on the test. Simple ones just test the Carbon monoxide and unburnt hydrocarbons level at idle and cruise rpm (no load). Testing the engine under load or for oxides of nitrogen would be more complex and harder for modified engines to pass. Like Elacruze said , big cams are hard to get pass the idle rpm unburnt hydrocarbon test. I would think the standards are more relaxed than what a new car would meet. 

[A383Wing]

up here, tampering with exhaust is federal offense, and you can only replace engine with what was offered in that car in that year. Anything 25 years or older does not have to be tested here.

the "emissions limit window" is larger on older cars than it is with the newer vehicles....HC & O2 limits are very tight in new cars & trucks

I don't make the rules, I gotta work on these things, I had to go through testing up here

big cams and high compression usually will not pass the tests

Bryan

[John_Kunkel]

What does it take to pass emissions after doing an engine swap, or adding speed parts? Seems to me a well tuned engine in a pre computerized vehicle, say late 70's or early 80's, would still meet the emission standards.

Depends on the testing standard, here in the PRK they perform a visual inspection in addition to the tailpipe sniff, if any visible equipment is missing or altered it'll fail even if the tailpipe sniffs clean.

[flyinlow]

Did you forget the D?   DPRK

[Chatt69chgr]

That law perfectly ememplifies the stupidity of those that got it passed.  Lets face it.  On a percentage basis, how many cars, say, older than 1982 are used as daily drivers.  I wound't think it would be that many.  Now think about classic cars which are probably the majority of older cars that people seek to license.  Folks spend a ton of money restoring these cars.  Money that goes into providing jobs for people that do the restorations as well as people that sell the parts.  And many of the new repop parts are made in the USA again providing jobs.  So you have someone spending $40-$60 thousand dollars restoring a car that might see at most 3000 miles in a year.  Lets see?  Put folks to work by pumping $60,000 into the economy providing jobs or keep a car off the road when the lawnmowers in Phoenix probably produce many times more pollution than all the classic cars combined.  Makes no sense at all.
Classic cars should be exempt from these laws.

[AZMoparboy]

Hi Paul, I don't know exactly the laws here in AZ, but I have classic car insurance on my '73 Charger from Hagerty and I didn't even have to take the car in to even be looked at prior to being insured. 3000 miles a year is a lot of miles on a car that only gets 8 to 12 miles a gallon, and right now I have not heard of any milage police running around making sure that you not exceeding the mileage limit (althought I haven't). If you are interested in owning one of these cars, just call the DMV here in AZ and they will tell you the cut off for a classic car or antique car emission requirements. I thought the emission exemption was for any classic car, but don't know what the states considers "classic".

[Cooter]

Here in Va, we have State Insp. that covers a "Visual" for any emissions equipment and the book goes all the way back to 1966. (IE: PCV valves, Some had spark arrestor/timing,etc)..

If it isn't there, it doesn't pass. I can't WAIT till the sniffer test comes here too. I've always said  a "True" STREET car that makes 1500 HP should have to pass Va. State insp. and sniffer test if year requires it too.

Round here, we are gonna see ALOT of these So-called "Street cars" like Late model GM Monte Carlo SS's, Camaro's, Mustangs, imports, YANKED off the road. All of a sudden, 1960's Musclecar prices will skyrocket. I can't see someone repalcing the cat converters every 5000 Miles due to burning them up because they are trying to run Racing fuel through 'em. I've always said it, build something you can, not some late model crap because it's in better shape. So say you had a 1999 Chevy Camaro, and you wanted to dump a 540 BBC in it..WRONG...Had to be an option the car was manufactured with originally. If you had a 6cyl. Camro of same year, and wanted to swap to V8, it better have ALL the emissions equipment including, but not limited to the Metal lines running from fuel tank, Evap/system, etc. the days of dumping any older engine in a later model car like the 1980's Mirada's is Coming to a close if you really want to drive it. Sure, 3000 miles a year doesn't sound like all that much, but let one guy think he's gonna DAILY drive his 1980's Mirada, with that blown alcohol 500 C.I. stroker in it and fu*ks it up for everybody...

[68 RT]

You should only have to meet the standards for your year car.   

[Paul G]

Hi Paul, I don't know exactly the laws here in AZ, but I have classic car insurance on my '73 Charger from Hagerty and I didn't even have to take the car in to even be looked at prior to being insured. 3000 miles a year is a lot of miles on a car that only gets 8 to 12 miles a gallon, and right now I have not heard of any milage police running around making sure that you not exceeding the mileage limit (althought I haven't). If you are interested in owning one of these cars, just call the DMV here in AZ and they will tell you the cut off for a classic car or antique car emission requirements. I thought the emission exemption was for any classic car, but don't know what the states considers "classic".

My 72 has classic insurance with Grundy. Not a problem. My thinking is more in line of re building late 70's early 80's classic as a DD. I believe OBD1 came in around 81 or 82, the testing guys don't plug in to it like 96 and later OBD2. Rebuilding the drive train with modern components like an overdrive trans and magnum engine. No longer "as built" in the model year. Lean burn gone, etc. No sense in doing anything like that if it wont pass emissions.

Once the new law is passed pre 75 models will be the only choice I guess.   

[Paul G]

GM has the new E-Rod crate engine out now. It's a complete turn key, 50 state legal, emissions compliant crate engine. Whats the point in that if the car has to retain the factory original emissions equipment to pass inspection? No point putting in to a pre 67 because they dont get smog checked.

[A383Wing]

You should only have to meet the standards for your year car.   

yes