Yet ANOTHER problem expected from the weenie greenie movement....

[Mopar440+6]

...As these cars come out, better and better ones will follow.  We are at the beginning here, what was the gas engine like when it was a " hit and miss " engine a 100 years ago?

Just to make a point, ever research a "Hit-and-Miss" engine? A 1hp "hit-n-miss" engine can run all day on less than a quart of gasoline. You want efficiency, that was the peak. It went down hill from there. Also, when the diesel engine was invented it was designed to run on peanut oil. Until 10-15 years ago when diesel prices hit the ceiling, very few people even attempted to run a bio-based fuel. No matter what we do it is GOING to have a major impact on the environment, simply because of the sheer number of vehicles on this planet. I'm not saying I know what the solution to this problem is; I just think there is a better solution than electric cars...

Something to look into if you're bored: Changing World Technologies

[Ghoste]

I wonder what the norm will be in China and India in 10 to 15 years as far as their participation in the "green" movement?

[71wrenchhead]

there is something better than the whole electric deal
hydrogen
right now its not practical, but there are companies working on getting the power required to continue to operate the current demand on cars
essentially it should be an easy switch ie. same time and process to "fill up" same "mileage" or better.
the only thing that i see as a problem, if all the cars the run on hydrogen only produce water as an emission, then uh, arent all the roads going to be soaked?

[twodko]

As someone here already mentioned, electric cars died at birth. Not practical and cause just as much poluution as gas vehicles. Why? Oil, coal etc fired power plants.
Fuel cells will the norm soon, most likely hydrogen based. 

[twodko]

As someone here already mentioned, electric cars died at birth. Not practical and cause just as much poluution as gas vehicles. Why? Oil, coal etc fired power plants.
Fuel cells will the norm soon, most likely hydrogen based. 

[Kern Dog]

You can say that again.

[Paul G]

I would not give up on electric assist so easily. Maybe because I am an industrial electrician, I see first hand how electronic motor control has evolved through the years. The electric drive they are using in these cars is very similar to what we have been using in industrial processes for years now. Electronic motor starting and variable frequency drive technology has become the industry standard. They operate very efficiently, maximum torque from 0 RPM, very low maintenance. Perfect to help get a car moving, or just add torque when needed. Plus, they regenerate power on deceleration to recharge the power cell.

I think hydrogen is the long term solution as well. But, it's years away before it becomes cheap enough, and safe enough, to mass produce. We have been spending our research dollar on power storage, battery technology, more than how to generate power from hydrogen, safely.   

[440]

Nuclear is the greenest technology so far, but also has the highest potential for catastrophic a disaster....

[68blue]

Electric cars look like a warm climate city car to me, I have wondered about the life of the batteries and cost of replacement though.

[Paul G]

Electric cars look like a warm climate city car to me, I have wondered about the life of the batteries and cost of replacement though.

How long has the Prius been out? 10+ years or so? Never hear of battery replacement. Then again, I dont frequent Toyota websites or Toyota anything. 

Any one know?

[resq302]

Electric cars look like a warm climate city car to me, I have wondered about the life of the batteries and cost of replacement though.

How long has the Prius been out? 10+ years or so? Never hear of battery replacement. Then again, I dont frequent Toyota websites or Toyota anything. 

Any one know?

I heard of one going bad just after the warranty was up.  Cost the owner $8000 to get replaced.  Basically what he saved for in gas over the years cost him one lump sum for a battery!  Pay me a little now over time or pay me a lot later!

[twodko]

I would not give up on electric assist so easily. Maybe because I am an industrial electrician, I see first hand how electronic motor control has evolved through the years. The electric drive they are using in these cars is very similar to what we have been using in industrial processes for years now. Electronic motor starting and variable frequency drive technology has become the industry standard. They operate very efficiently, maximum torque from 0 RPM, very low maintenance. Perfect to help get a car moving, or just add torque when needed. Plus, they regenerate power on deceleration to recharge the power cell.

I think hydrogen is the long term solution as well. But, it's years away before it becomes cheap enough, and safe enough, to mass produce. We have been spending our research dollar on power storage, battery technology, more than how to generate power from hydrogen, safely.   

True & true. Torque monsters.

[71wrenchhead]

japan already came up with a new way to mass produce hydrogen recently, ill try and find the site later.
i think the difficulty is comming from devising a standard, cheap, effective, and safe way to do it, as well as making sure there is a smooth transition from gas to hydrogen when the time comes to switch.
In any case, im all for saving the enviroment, so long as the car makes some kind of sound, and produces enough power for me to have fun with and enjoy my drive.
If it cant do that, then im buying a helicopter and parachuting into work from now on. 

[Troy]

Electric cars look like a warm climate city car to me, I have wondered about the life of the batteries and cost of replacement though.

How long has the Prius been out? 10+ years or so? Never hear of battery replacement. Then again, I dont frequent Toyota websites or Toyota anything. 

Any one know?

Yes, they do go bad. Toyota even extended the warranty to 10 years because the first models only had an 8 year warranty and it costs about $3,500-4,500 for a new battery. If you drive a car for 8 years and the value is hovering around $9-12k would you pay that much to replace the battery? You can get used batteries from the junk yard but no one with a Prius wants to recycle (that's a joke but it seems true in this case). The "green" argument has been that the prices will come down as more cars are produced and battery technology improves. I agree - but that doesn't help the guy who needs one today.

Troy

[Mike DC]

 . . . assuming we really believe the whole premise that vehicle battery technology will cheapen & improve in a significant way in the near term. 

[Silver R/T]

It won't matter whether the cars charging system used a 220v or 110v plug. It all will still be drawing from the same system. The alternative could be a small generator, but then wheres the gain? You are now using a GASOLINE engine to charge your electric car. Who puts emission devices on a generator though? The result is MORE smog! Theres the fatal flaw in electric cars: You are trading mobile emissions from the vehicle being driven versus stationary emissions from the power plant needed to supply electricity.

I don't claim to know the whole country, but I can tell you about the power utility here: In the Pacific NW, a lot of the power is hydro. No pollution or greenhouse gases. The power utility that serves my area has studied the eventually coming of the electric car in mass (just as most utilities have). They do want to upgrade some feeder cables and such in weaker areas, but it's not much work beyond normal operations, and minor portions of the overall budget of a power utility.

In North America, there is a ton of wind and solar coming on line, or planned to come on line. Conservation efforts are saving tons (insulation, efficient appliances, HVAC, and lighting). Additionally, there are several regulatory agencies that require very strict compliance of utilities to ensure reliable power, including generating capacity, transmission between utilities to balance loads, and maintenance and upgrading of a utilities. Look up FERC and NERC for starters. They regularly audit power utilities to ensure they comply in providing reliable power including fines of up to $1M per day for violation. These agencies all came to be after the brownout and power outages in eastern USA 30 +/- years ago.

$1M per day! Do you really think the utilities are going to let the load from electric cars (which isn't horribly significant) cost them that much? There are a lot of smart people motivated to profit (or maintain profits) on this subject. I'm not saying everything will be perfect - rarely is anything, because people are faulty, but the sky is NOT falling.

I also live in NW. Our local power company is already overcharging us and raises utility costs every year. You know what they did to please customer? They send 8 spiral energy-saving bulbs per customer. WOW, thanks for nothing Avista. I'm sure they will increase energy rates even more once we get more of these electric "mobiles" going down the road. Average taxpayer will pay for them, even if they don't own one.

[Budnicks]

If you live in the mountains or foothills or just a hilly town/city like S.F. the electric cars really suck in the up hill trips, "can we say gutless" & regenerate power on the down hill side as long as your not running low on battery power going up hill, you will maybe be OK... Also there are some performance versions but are like $100K or more Lotus bodied, Tesla & Jaguar are starting to make or at least R&D or prototype some sedans & upscale "high dollar I'm sure" versions supposedly, along with the "tax payer subsidized" GM Volts amongst others proposed... They are still far from being an "affordable or reliable" option yet, for the common person or performance car enthusiast... There is a company, I don't remember the name, that make a "Cobra" (like the AC Fiberglass Cobra Body Replica) Electric car, they aren't cheap either 200 miles extended range supposedly...

[aussiemuscle]

The alternative could be a small generator, but then wheres the gain? You are now using a GASOLINE engine to charge your electric car.

no different from pulling the power from a coal power plant

[J-440]

  Doesn't China control  70% of the world's mines where these rare earth metals come from in order to produce the lithium batteries in all of these electric cars?  That's not very reassuring.  Not only can I not afford a Chevy Volt but if I could I will not be buying anything from a company that got a bailout from the Feds.  My 401K is still short a couple thousand because of those union a-holes.  Also, Jeffrey Imelt the head of GM (Obama's job Czar) was quoted as trying to get gas prices higher than normal in order for the people to be forced to buy a Volt.  Funny, because GM loves sending jobs to China.  So the unions screw GM and Imelt screws them back.  I'm down with letting electric cars prosper because as a lot of ya'll stated earlier, there will be more gas for my Charger.