Re-body or not.....opinions?

[Mike DC]

              
I'll say it again, the original car is gone.  

Either it's the same unibody and it's got 200 extra pounds of welding patchwork in it, or it's a rebody.  Either way I wouldn't want to pay up for it when there are other GTXs with clear histories for sale. 

[RallyeMike]

Enough has been replaced to probably define it as re-bodied, but who cares really about the term? They appear to be honest in the description, and that's all that matters. They essentially built the car around the engine compartment. the doors, and a few pieces here and there. Quite a job. Not much original metal left:

Doors (retaining the original door VIN sticker was important to me)

Rad support

Inner fenders

Firewall

Partial cowl

Foot-well kick-ups to firewall

Rear underseat area

Driver side rocker

Door jambs

Rally dash

Trans tunnel

Body framing for window mechanism mounting

Top of passenger quarter and trunk gutter (with factory VIN stamp)

[Magnumcharger]

This Camaro SS 396 was a running/driving car, and most people would have done a quick patch job on it.
However, the owner would have none of that...and wanted an essentually new Camaro.

This was the result.

Is it still the same car?

[Magnumcharger]

More pics...

[Magnumcharger]

Last batch..

[gtx6970]

Enough has been replaced to probably define it as re-bodied, but who cares really about the term? They appear to be honest in the description, and that's all that matters. They essentially built the car around the engine compartment. the doors, and a few pieces here and there. Quite a job. Not much original metal left.

I agree,  I applaude the owner who took it on. But it's no secret how it was rebuilt so it will have a tainted future ahead of it .

With the amount of metal replaced , in most buyers eyes it's a rebody in even the simplest of terms.But like I said earlier, they just did it the hard way.

I like the car and would love to have it as my own. for a price.  Problem is,and the way I see it -  it's past is going to determine  it's present / future value.
And while we're on the subject. I wonder what percentage this car is worth compared to say a similarly optioned car, only with it's original metal intact.

[The70RT]

Yes the Camaro is a 10th of the original. Is it the same car....no, how could it be? Should it be worth as much as an original car? Most of us would say NO, just like the GTX. Is it better shape than most? yes but it isn't the same car. This tread is going nowhere fast....like all the other rebody threads. Bottom line is if you buy it and are happy then your in your own little world (you and the buyer and anyone else that thinks a rebody is the same car world)and most of us will just laugh at you when you state is the original or a real one.

[Magnumcharger]

When I think "rebodied"  this is what comes to mind:

[F8-4life]

Some food for thought: In another 50 or so years when the GTX supply is less and these cars are even more rare and obscure, would this car be less of a re-body and more of a "saved" GTX Hemi 4 speed? Future generations are just gonna be glad a car like this still exists. In the long run this is one rare baddass plymouth. I'm glad it's not rotting anymore.

[Magnumcharger]

Is this a rebody? Which is worth more, the original, or the restored version?
Is something valuable only because it's in the public's vernacular?

What establishes value? What establishes originality? Who determines that?

Would you not agree that a restoration of a car diminishes it's originality?

A car ceases to be original immediately after it's built does it not? As soon as the tires touch the ground.
Not to mention after it's first tuneup. There goes the original plugs, air filter, wiper blades and within a short time, the tires and exhaust.
If it gets into an accident, maybe a fender or door or bumper and grille gets replaced. It's no longer original anymore...but by golly, it's still a Hemi Daytona.

[TiMopar]

IMO, if the 'new' Dodge Challenger is considered to be a 'real' Dodge Challenger, then that is a GTX.

[Aero426]

Some food for thought: In another 50 or so years when the GTX supply is less and these cars are even more rare and obscure, would this car be less of a re-body and more of a "saved" GTX Hemi 4 speed? Future generations are just gonna be glad a car like this still exists. In the long run this is one rare baddass plymouth. I'm glad it's not rotting anymore.

It will always be a reconstructed car. 
It will always have a story attached to it. 
It will be always be worth less than a car with known history that survived without any drama. 

[Aero426]

Is this a rebody? Which is worth more, the original, or the restored version?
Is something valuable only because it's in the public's vernacular?

What establishes value? What establishes originality? Who determines that?

Would you not agree that a restoration of a car diminishes it's originality?

A car ceases to be original immediately after it's built does it not? As soon as the tires touch the ground.
Not to mention after it's first tuneup. There goes the original plugs, air filter, wiper blades and within a short time, the tires and exhaust.
If it gets into an accident, maybe a fender or door or bumper and grille gets replaced. It's no longer original anymore...but by golly, it's still a Hemi Daytona.

In the case of the Hemi Daytona, it was an extraordinary car even when new.   Certainly it warrants restoration, or whatever hocus pocus happened to it.      If you want to talk "originality", I don't think you can compare the replacement of wear items to the restoration of a stripped and crumpled shell.    That restoration began with a steaming pile, compared to a running driving car in better condition.   The end result is the same, but for the same price, a future buyer would likely want the Hemi Daytona that did not suffer the trauma of a rollover.      

I read a recent auction review on a racing Bugatti.    The particular car was well known,  had been raced often in recent years, and sold for about $700,000, the low end of the scale for that model.     The high end would be over $3,000,000.      Both the low and high end cars look the same.   By golly, both cars are "real" Bugattis.    But the car for $700,000 was reconstructed in modern times using a new frame, and some original mechanical components.    But everyone out there knew what it was and it was priced appropriately.    Nobody got hurt.  

As time goes on, collectors of high end cars are going to recognize even more, things like continous ownership history,  original componentry documented back to assembly line, and how much of the actual body and frame exists from back in the early days.     The cream will always rise to the top.    

On Saturday, I saw an unrestored 3700 mile Hemi Cuda at Mike Ross' place.    That car will always be worth more than the most perfectly restored car, even if the restored car was 100 percent correct.     There is room in the hobby for everything:  survivor,  restored,  reconstructed, clone.     Just don't expect them all to be worth the same.  

[XS29LA47V21]

   aero426 has a great point ... "There is room in the hobby for everything:  survivor,  restored,  reconstructed, clone.     Just don't expect them all to be worth the same. "  It is a hobby after all, so we tend to migrate to the cars we like individually for the important qualities they offer for different reasons.  I dig and continue to be enamored with rare or not so rare survivors, even if a little rough. 

[Wicked72]

I thought a car zombie was coming after me and ran to the bathroom! 

[six-tee-nine]

Well its probably a rebody but i thinkt it deserves a second approach.

Pesonally I think if that person bought the wreck, then bought a second low budget car to get going, then doing  full restoration come on what is essentially wrong with that?
I understand the opinions here because in most cases cars are rebodyd to scam people. but if the owner has no intention of scamming people is he harming others by saving a nice rare car?

I'd say nice car!

[daveco]

The dilemma is not a new one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

[Aero426]

I understand the opinions here because in most cases cars are rebodyd to scam people. but if the owner has no intention of scamming people is he harming others by saving a nice rare car?

Typically, the slippery slope seems to occur two or three owners down the line when history starts to be revised.   

[Khyron]

If a tree falls in the forest & there is nobody there to hear it, does it still make a sound?   

If a rotbox hemi & a nice 318 car are in a garage together & the hemi emerges a show car while the 318 disappears & nobody was there to see the restoration, were the VIN tags swapped?   

Im going to admit, I did actually laugh out loud at that one heheheh