Who buys cars the same day they go into the dealership?

[jeryst]

They ask if you are ready to buy because they dont want you to waste their time. They live on commission, not on standing around chatting idly.

Also, they know that if they dont sell you a vehicle right now, their chances of selling you a car at some future time drops to something like 10 percent.
That's why there is so much pressure to not let you leave the office.

There has been much good advice offered here. I will add once more thing:
NEVER, NEVER, EVER, tell a sales person how much you want to spend, or how much you can afford as a monthly payment.
Once you do that, they can manipulate prices, rebates, etc, to get you close to your desired payment, but in the process, you could wind up
paying more for the car than you would have otherwise.

Whenever I go into a dealership, I do my homework, and come up with a reasonable guess at a monthly payment. If they keep on insisting
that I give them a monthly payment figure, I purposely give them a monthly payment that is hundreds of dollars a month less than what I am expecting on my best possible deal. You
wouldnt believe how many times this has worked out to my advantage. One thing it does, is puts the salesman on the offensive, and you
can quickly tell if you are on to something. If the salesman hesitates, or thinks about it for a moment, you may have a shot at getting a great deal, but if he says he cant help
you, you know that you are way too far off, and you can come up a little at the next dealership you visit.

Car sale profits are one of the most closely guarded secrets in this country, I think. Isnt it funny, that if you try and talk down a salesman $1000, he acts like they will go bankrupt, yet, when they were having trouble selling cars, they were knocking $5k-$12k off of vehicles with incentives like "employee pricing", etc, and they were still making money?

Oh, and stay away from gorgeous, friendly sales girls. They can be very persuasive - lol.

[oldgold69]

back when i bought my daughters neon   we went to the dealer saw the car it was 9 at nite the guy said it was too late to drive the car my daughter had driven other neons at dealers so she liked the car  i called the guy the next day while on the road made him an offer he said he had to check with his boss  called me back said he couldnt do it  told him that was my offer i always tell them its not the last car on earth they make more  called back hour later sold it was a good cheap car    bought my dads 300 walked in  quickie test drive insulted salesman with the offer couldnt do it  told him that must be the last 300 on earth got up to leave they accepted his offer.  drove the car home in 3 hours  im never afraid to walk away did that on my wifes durango let them sit on it for a week

[djcarguy]

   lots of good advice here.go to lots early before they open and look at what you want.i was a salesman for awhlie,but got so sick of it. most of it is a game to them, intimadate and badger till you sign away you rights and all the money they can ring out of you.
        think with economy and all wait till you get and have job for 6 months.use time to narrow your search cause now you are looking at very different types of cars.buy late in day or sunday evening for better deals.dj

[TUFCAT]

Miller?? Where are you?? Miller/ Anyone? Hello?

Don't leave us hangin'

[chargerjy9]

"Car sale profits are one of the most closely guarded secrets in this country, I think. Isnt it funny, that if you try and talk down a salesman $1000, he acts like they will go bankrupt, yet, when they were having trouble selling cars, they were knocking $5k-$12k off of vehicles with incentives like "employee pricing", etc, and they were still making money?"

dealers lead you to believe that "dealer invoice" is as low as they can go because that is what the pay for the car. so when they tell you that they are selling you the car for say 3% over dealer invoice, they are trying to make you think that that is their profit.    NOT. there is actusally a dealer wholesale price which is in many cases thousands below invoice, they have lots of wiggle room to make money

[jeryst]

"Car sale profits are one of the most closely guarded secrets in this country, I think. Isnt it funny, that if you try and talk down a salesman $1000, he acts like they will go bankrupt, yet, when they were having trouble selling cars, they were knocking $5k-$12k off of vehicles with incentives like "employee pricing", etc, and they were still making money?"

dealers lead you to believe that "dealer invoice" is as low as they can go because that is what the pay for the car. so when they tell you that they are selling you the car for say 3% over dealer invoice, they are trying to make you think that that is their profit.    NOT. there is actusally a dealer wholesale price which is in many cases thousands below invoice, they have lots of wiggle room to make money

Yeah, the thing that makes me laugh the most, is when you see the commercials proudly screaming "Selling below invoice!". Like anyone can stay in business by selling something for less than what they paid for it (over and over again). And some morons actually believe that line. I had a friend that was a car salesman, and he showed me how they printed up the invoices, right in the saleroom. They could print whatever they wanted on them, because it was entirely up to them.

[miller]

Miller?? Where are you?? Miller/ Anyone? Hello?

Don't leave us hangin'

Sorry,

I have been working many days over the past week (the joys of being an intern). There are a few reasons why I have been looking into the Subaru, A) All wheel drive, 265 horsepower, manual wagon, fully loaded for under 30,000. B) The company I currently work for gets us supplier discounts on Subaru's, 3) I just like the way they look.

Now, I also want to support the American Auto Industry, which is why every other car on my wish list is American. And I know you want me to get the ford.  

However I went into the dealer in my area and I asked for how much lease payments would be for a 2011 V6 mustang premium, 6 speed manual, with the track package. The sales man says around 700 a month. Now this car is priced at 28,000 dollars new. 700X12 (months)=8400 a year, a 3 year lease brings the total payment to 25200. Now I know new cars take resale value hits, but a 3 year old car worth only 2800 is unbelievable (if 2008 v6 mustangs do cost 2800 dollars... please let me know).

In all honesty, I will most likely buy a 2011 mustang in July of 2012 (when the 2013s are out and 2011s are coming off of leases). But I just find it irritating that the car dealers down here jerk me around so much, I guess I am just use to my home town were the car dealers actually listen to you and understand that if you treat a person right, they come back.

PS: Just for you tufcat, we have owned 4 new fords in the past 3 years and we have nothing but good to say about them.

[Brock Samson]

 I like a Mustang, though the Bullett is the one I'd prefer the '11 V-6 makes great power and scores very high in road tests, lease return should save you nearly half over a brand new vehicle. 305 HP from the six is a great Output figure.

   From C&D:
Taking the LL1 crown this year and tying the class-record time of 3:12.5 was Ford's 305-hp V-6 Mustang. We have little doubt that it could have unseated the co–class-champ 2006 Nissan 350Z Track if the Ford hadn't been equipped with a 114-mph governor, which the car banged into for more than 15 seconds per lap. Yet despite the interference of the electric anchor, the new V-6–powered car still managed to beat last year's 315-hp V-8 Mustang by 0.8 second.

We might have found our minds wandering on the speed-limited straights, but the Mustang had no problem holding our attention in the corners. Equipped with the Performance package, which adds 255/40R-19 Pirelli P Zero rubber and a firmer, track-friendly chassis, the car swept through the rest of the track with an ease that masked its 3513-pound curb weight and solid rear axle. Under trail braking—braking past the point of turning into a corner—the easily modulated binders enabled impressive front-end grip as the Mustang tucked into tight, low-speed corners with the nimbleness of a much lighter car. A cinch to balance through the middle of a corner, the chassis tends toward neutrality and is only disturbed by big, foolish control inputs.

Even though effort through the leather-wrapped wheel is light and doesn't increase much in response to cornering loads, the steering is resolutely accurate and faithful. Some initial roll compliance made the Mustang feel slightly disconnected, but the stability of its chassis makes sport of the downhill corners before the straightaway (sector five) and the uphill esses. The seats could use more support, and the V-6 lacks the torque and sound of the 5.0-liter V-8, but this model sacrifices nothing when it comes to handling.

  http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/lightning_lap_2011_3a_ll1_class_page_2#Ford Mustang V-6

[TUFCAT]

Miller?? Where are you?? Miller/ Anyone? Hello?

Don't leave us hangin'

Now, I also want to support the American Auto Industry, which is why every other car on my wish list is American.

Thanks Adam! 

[bakerhillpins]

Oh, and stay away from gorgeous, friendly sales girls. They can be very persuasive - lol.

TUFCAT knows all about that:   

Can anyone guess why I came home with a five gallon bucket of rust remover for $80?

Marketing works!     

[TUFCAT]

TUFCAT knows all about that:  

Translation:

After enjoying TWO BEERS on a hot afternoon, don't be lured by persuasive young salesladies wanting to sell rust remover at Carlisle.

BTW, dragging that heavy-ass 5 Gal bucket back to the DC.com tent with a two beer buzz was a bitch.

[jeryst]

You need to go to another Ford dealer, cause they are jerking you around.
The residual on a 3 year old car should be at least half its original value, more if it is a specialty or desirable vehicle (which the Mustang is).

I looked around, and 2009 Mustangs are going for $16-$20k for the Premium or Deluxe models. See if he has a 2009 on the lot, and tell him you want it for $2800.

Just doing a rough draft on my calculator, (assuming $1k down, 6% interest, $15k residual value), your payments would be
a little under $500/month for 36 months, but that doesnt include any lease interest fees/taxes if your state has them.

And FYI, if you bought the car, your payment would be a little over $500/month for 60 months. This also doesn't include any taxes/fees.
2006 Mustangs (5 years old) are going for $11-$13k, so the car would be worth that when you get it paid off.

Negotiate the price down, and the numbers will be better.

This dealer is just being greedy/obnoxious and is trying to screw you big time because you are young and just getting out of school. One of the tricks that dealers will pull on you, is that if you want to buy the car, they will deal with you, but if you want to lease the car, they will use full sticker price. So what you want to do, is to walk into the dealer and act as if you are going to buy the car outright.
Get them to total up all rebates and incentives. Then offer them 20% off of the sticker on top of that. They will counter, but start at 20%, and dont settle for less than 10%. So lets say you look at that $28k car, and the dealer says that the rebates/incentives add up to $2k. The price to you is now $26k. So you now deduct 20% of $28k, (which is $5600),  from the $26k, and offer them $20,400.
They will balk, so be ready to get up and leave, and do not let them rattle you. They will probably counter, but dont go any higher than $23k, and stand firm. If they refuse, once again, thank them for their time, and leave. You have nothing to lose at this point. They have a sale to lose. If they agree to something close to your number, tell them that you think you are ready to make a deal, but that you changed your mind and would like to lease it for that price ($23k), instead. They have to lease it to you for the negotiated price, so dont let them tell you they dont. Why? Because they are selling the car, regardless of whether they sell it to you outright, or lease it to you. When they lease the car, they are actually selling it to the leasing company, so either way, they are still selling the car, and cannot refuse you the negotiated price. They still have to give you an accurate residual price.

If you want to piss him off, tell him that you want to see all of the numbers, including the residual value, and how they all add up.

I will also offer another couple of tips.

1. It is always best to not have a trade in. A trade in just give the salesman another number to manipulate, and another way to screw you.
   What usually happens, is they wind up making it look like they are giving you a big amount for your car, when they are not.
   Heres an example: You go in to buy that $28k Mustang and you want to trade in your car that is worth $2k. The saleman will look at it
   and say "I'll give you $3k for your car, so you can have the Mustang for $25K". You think you did great, when in reality, the saleman would
   have taken $25k cash for the Mustang, so you just gave your car away for nothing. Better you keep it for a little while, and try to sell it.

2. Never give the dealer your drivers license to copy. What they will do while you are talking, is have someone run a credit check on you. Every time a credit
   check is run on you, it hurts your credit score. So if you go to 10 dealers, and they run checks on you (and they will), your credit rating will be damaged.
   I always tell them "You will get my personal information when I am ready to sign the papers". If they complain that its regulation or policy, leave. You can
   quickly hold up your license to show them that you have one, when it is time for a test drive. Tell them that if they are uncomfortable with that, they are
   more than welcome to come along for the test drive and explain the features of the vehicle.

3. If possible, take an older male with you. Someone that has bought vehicles, is good at haggling, doesnt take crap, and has nothing to lose.
   Just dont bring along someone that looks like Charlie Manson.

4. Never sign anything before you agree to buy a vehicle. I once went into a dealership and the first thing the salesman did was put a contract in front of me.
   I asked him what it was, and he said "It's an agreement that you will buy a vehicle from us today if we make a deal". I told him I wasnt signing anything.
   He said they had to do it because they were wasting too much time with tire-kickers. I said "Screw you crooks" and left.

5. If at all possible, arrange for a loan through your regular bank, a credit union, or your insurance company. A lot of times, lending
   institutions associated with car dealers will charge you higher interest, and give a percentage back to the dealer, or they will provide lower residual values.
   But local institutions will give you a real breakdown of what the true residual value, and payments will be. I bet it wont be $700/month. A word of caution here,
   sometimes different lending institutions will have different residual values for the same vehicle. I'm not sure why this is, but I think it has something to do
   with whoever underwrites their loans. And different institutions will also give you different interest rates, so it pays to shop around ahead of time so that
   you wind up with the lowest overall monthly payment. If you negotiate a better deal on the car, you know your payment will be even lower. What I usually
   do is talk to the credit union, give them the Vin number of the car and the price, and they will tell me the numbers. I am not dealing with some car salesman
   that is trying his best to screw me with double talk. I then go into the dealer, and negotiate the best possible price I can for the car as an outright sale. After
   the price is negotiated, I tell the salesman that I will be leasing the vehicle through my personal credit union or bank, for that price.

6. Beware of "Turn-in" or "lease-ending" fees. Some institutions will charge you a fixed amount at the end of the lease when you turn in your vehicle. This is to
   cover reconditioning, minor damages, cleaning, handling, whatever. This fee can be substantial (hundreds or thousands of dollars).

7. Make note of the mileage limitations in the lease. One lending institution may give you a lease for 12k miles per year, while another institution will give you a lease
   for 15k miles per year, for the same price. And always check your over mileage fees in case you happen to exceed the mileage in your lease contract.

8. Please check your insurance rates before you buy the car. All you have to do is give your insurance agent the VIN
   number of the car, and he can give you a quote. Many things affect insurance rates, and unfortunately, you are hitting all of the things that may
   cause the rates to go through the roof (Your age, lack of credit history, newness of vehicle, type of vehicle, vehicle track record, etc).
   If you have less than a clean driving record, it will be much worse. You may find that you just wont be able to afford the car
   because the insurance adds another $300+/month to your payment.
   
Heres a general rule of thumb for vehicle insurance rates, that is based on my experience.
The younger you are, the higher the rate.
The worse your credit score, the higher the rate.
The less credit history you have, the higher the rate.
The newer the car, the higher the rate.
The more expensive the car, the higher the rate.
Rates for 4WD vehicles are higher than 2WD vehicles.
Rates for performance vehicles are higher than non performance vehicles.
Rates for less safe vehicles are higher than for safer vehicles.

The track record of the vehicle plays a big part in the rates as well. The insurance companies keep statistics on each year and model
of vehicle, including safety, how many accidents they have been involved in, the total cost of repairs, the total cost of other damages, medical bills, etc.
So you could look at two vehicles that are very similar in appearance, price, performance, utility, etc, but if the one has been involved
in more accidents, or it takes more to fix it, or more people have been killed, you will pay much higher rates for that vehicle than for the other one.

Just something to think about. Nothing worse than buying a car and finding out that it is now going to cost you $3000 a year to insure it.

[miller]

To jeryst,

Thank you for the information, very informative. What really started the leasing aspect was I looked at a used 2008 subaru wrx limited and they sell used for around 22-23,000. The car new was 28,000, so it only lost 5,000 in 3 years. Which was why I initially looked at leasing the WRX, and then expanded to the other cars. Truth be told, if I ended up looking at a V6 Stang I do believe second hand ownership would be the best option since the v6 stang rentals will drop their resale prices.

Also, I have always brought up trade ins only after the price of the car has been worked out. Then they can't wiggle up the price of the car, take my Grand Prix for instance, got it down to a very good price, then asked how much they would give me for my pristine 1998 SHO. They couldn't raise the price of the Grand Prix so they said the most they could go is 500 bucks! I sold it a month later for 3500.

Miller

The SHO in question

The pristine engine bay featuring the fantastic high revving dohc 32 valve yamaha V8!

My Wise choice of selling the SHO outright after I bought the Grand Prix.... I still miss that cars rumble (check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-GasSAlJI0)

[jeryst]

To jeryst,

Thank you for the information, very informative. What really started the leasing aspect was I looked at a used 2008 subaru wrx limited and they sell used for around 22-23,000. The car new was 28,000, so it only lost 5,000 in 3 years. Which was why I initially looked at leasing the WRX, and then expanded to the other cars. Truth be told, if I ended up looking at a V6 Stang I do believe second hand ownership would be the best option since the v6 stang rentals will drop their resale prices.

This is an example of something that happens with desirable vehicles, and you can make it work to your advantage. When that car was leased, it still would have been given a residual value of around $15k, which means that, at the end of the lease, you could purchase it for $15k. However, because of its desirability, it is actually worth $23k at the end of 3 years. Trade in value will be less than that, so lets say trade-in is $20k. Thats a difference of $5k. Now, suppose you are the one that leased the vehicle, and your 3 years are up. What do you do? You could turn it back in, and be done with it, but you are in effect throwing $5k away. You could buy it for $15k, and try to sell it for $23k, but that may take a lot of time. The third option, would be to trade the vehicle in, right before the lease is up (yes you can do that). That way, you in effect, put the difference in your pocket, and save that $5k for yourself. I have done that quite a few number of times, and have always made money. You do have to clear it with the leasing company and you need to ask them the payoff amount at that time. If you are leasing through a car company, they wont allow it because they want that $5k for themselves. Thats why I use local banks or credit unions.

BTW, I've owned a lot of Subarus, and they are great cars. Their customer service leaves something to be desired, but the cars themselves are great. And that WRX will out-handle that Mustang all day long, plus it goes like a tank in the snow.

[mauve66]

that sho had a v8 in it? would of never guessed it from the outside, would of figured it was a standard v6
motor still looks sideways in the engine bay though....................... you did say yamaha but.................

[djcarguy]

IT WAS A YAMA VV666,6666      FRONT DRIVE VV66 , HIGH OUT PUT V6 YAMA-HAHA SIDE WAYSSS ...IN THE FISH  BOWL BACK WINDOW TORUASS ---- KNOWN AS A TORE-ASSSS
      WHOM, CARES IT WAS IT IS AAAAA    MAZADA,,,MAZADA,NOT MOPAR NOT EVEN A AMERICAN       CAR,REAL,CAR,,,,,KEEPER CAR BARLY A CAR ,MOSTLY PLASTIC AND RICE,   

[mauve66]

32 valves don't go into 6 cylinders very well and i do see 8 intakes

[djcarguy]

     2 OF THE CYLINDER ARE USED AS THE AIR CAN-DISHONING COMPRESTOR PUMP TA PUTS SAM AIR ITTOOS THA KAR FOR DIVERS CUMFART,






  ITS EARLY ,,,APRIL FOOLSSSS  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGOODDAY I SAY

[miller]

that sho had a v8 in it? would of never guessed it from the outside, would of figured it was a standard v6
motor still looks sideways in the engine bay though....................... you did say yamaha but.................

Yep, the 3rd generation SHO featured a 3.4 liter 32 valve dohc V8. I simply generalized that the engine was made by Yamaha (like the first two generations V6s). The heads were made by Yamaha, but the aluminum block was designed by Cosworth. The engines were built in Windsor and then sent to Japan to be finished by Yamaha.

If you want more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V8_engine

Here is a review from Motor Week (note: they said 24 valve... which is incorrect): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1TmJeilUlc

Was the car very fast? Well not really, but being fresh out of high school and that v8 that sounded like a stock car... it was fun never the less.

Miller

[472 R/T SE]

However I went into the dealer in my area and I asked for how much lease payments would be for a 2011 V6 mustang premium, 6 speed manual, with the track package. The sales man says around 700 a month. Now this car is priced at 28,000 dollars new. 700X12 (months)=8400 a year, a 3 year lease brings the total payment to 25200. Now I know new cars take resale value hits, but a 3 year old car worth only 2800 is unbelievable (if 2008 v6 mustangs do cost 2800 dollars... please let me know).

Years ago when we bought one of our trucks we went with a lease program through Chrysler.  At the end of the lease you had the option of buying or returning like normal ones.  But the monthly payments, minus interest all went towards the principal.

So, since the price at the beginning was locked in your pay off would be $2800 at the end of a 3 year lease like mentioned above.

That scenario really pays off if you're in a state like ours.  You wouldn't be taxed on the full purchase price for license plates until you bought it at the end of the lease.  We didn't know that until after the fact.





A lot of dealerships have online negotiating as well, talk about saving face time.

[jeryst]

However I went into the dealer in my area and I asked for how much lease payments would be for a 2011 V6 mustang premium, 6 speed manual, with the track package. The sales man says around 700 a month. Now this car is priced at 28,000 dollars new. 700X12 (months)=8400 a year, a 3 year lease brings the total payment to 25200. Now I know new cars take resale value hits, but a 3 year old car worth only 2800 is unbelievable (if 2008 v6 mustangs do cost 2800 dollars... please let me know).

Years ago when we bought one of our trucks we went with a lease program through Chrysler.  At the end of the lease you had the option of buying or returning like normal ones.  But the monthly payments, minus interest all went towards the principal.

So, since the price at the beginning was locked in your pay off would be $2800 at the end of a 3 year lease like mentioned above.

That scenario really pays off if you're in a state like ours.  You wouldn't be taxed on the full purchase price for license plates until you bought it at the end of the lease.  We didn't know that until after the fact.





A lot of dealerships have online negotiating as well, talk about saving face time.

I dont believe he said that the $2800 was locked in. He said that the total of the payments they told him totaled up to $2800 less than the full price of the vehicle. They could put any residual value (buyout amount) on the lease that they want to, and that would be the actual buyout amount that would have to be paid.

[472 R/T SE]

Not the lease I just mentioned.