Which suspension package is better

[denver98]

I'm about to start a restoration of my Charger.  I've done a lot of research for an entire suspension replacement.  The car didn't have factory sway bars, it is a SE.  I want to upgrade the suspension to a solid street ride.  I've narrowed down my choices between Firm Feel and Hotchkis.

I like the Firm Feel because it's all bolt on but Hotchkis seems a little better even though it requires some welding. 

Thoughts?

Thanks.

[suntech]

What about a XV level 1 package?

[charger2fast4u]

have you decided how much you want to replace you said you looked into entire suspension replacement do you want to do any welding? whats your price range your looking to spend? you could mix and match these parts from all of the vendors to get the best of everything. are you wanting to keep the stock K frame? or go to a tubular setup. ive heard alot of good things about both these companies along with XV Motorsportsthey have a kit almost like the hotchkis one also a entire tubular front end if you want to go that route

[denver98]

I don't have the equipment to do the welding, so that would be an added expense.  I have looked at XV, I'm not against going that route, from what I've read here XV doesn't seem like the prefered vendor.  I don't think I want to go to a tubular setup unless it makes a HUGE difference.  So, I'm ok with the stock K frame.  I don't see this car spending a lot of time at the track, drag or otherwise. 

So, if I was going to mix and match from various companies, what is the best setup?

[RamZCharger]

I've recently been through this as well.  I ended up going with Hotchkis, but am using the XV Chassis stiffening components.  Based on reviews and price this was the combination that worked best for me.  I purchased the Hotchkis components individually from Summit.  They are cheaper there, and at Jegs, however Summit was having a sale and I found an additional coupon code on top of that.  If you have some time you can price compare and find some pretty good deals.  My car is in tear-down and I cannot comment on performance yet, but I am very pleased with the quality of components.  Good luck with your project.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I also went with the hotchkis TVS setup along with their 1.03 torsion bars and edelbrock shocks. Its not all installed yet (all I have left are the torsion bars, control arms, and strut rods to put on) but the stuff I put on so far has made it handle A LOT better. And the quality and looks of the hotchkis products are excellent. The only problem with hotchkis is the price, like RamZcharger I got mine from summit during the sale and the torsion bars directly from hotchkis with 20% off. I think no matter which setup you choose you will be well off as they both are great products that improve the stock k frame setup. 

[THE STIG]

I don't know much about Firm feel but I've been doing alot of homework on this subject myself it seems as though Hotchkis and XV both make good stuff. For some reason XV's subframe connectors are about $100 cheaper than Hotchkis and I'm not sure why. One advantage of the XV stuff is they only do Mopar but I personally was not impressed with thier costomer service I sent an email and got a voicemail the next business day but when I returned the call the dude acted like I was bothering him when I asked about the difference between XV and Hotchkis connectors he just said "I dont know". So my plan was just to get the Subframe connectors from XV and then do the rest with Hotchkis stuff starting with front and rear sway bars and I'm pretty sure those are the only parts that will require any welding.

[charger2fast4u]

does anyone have first hand expeerience with XV and Hotchkis TVS systems? i'm curious if there is any difference in the handling of the car between the 2? or if they both give the same handling feeling? good question on the subframe connectors anyone know the difference in them? also what about the US cartool subframe connectors how do they compair the the other 2 brands?

[THE STIG]

does anyone have first hand expeerience with XV and Hotchkis TVS systems? i'm curious if there is any difference in the handling of the car between the 2? or if they both give the same handling feeling? good question on the subframe connectors anyone know the difference in them? also what about the US cartool subframe connectors how do they compair the the other 2 brands?

I asked that same question on another forum here's what I got http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=14430. I then checked the prices on Summit and found this for my car http://www.summitracing.com/checkout/interim.aspx if you buy each part individually it will cost you about $2600 and if you get it straght from Hotchkis it will set you back like $3200. so I'm now rethinking the subframe connectors. Jay Leno also had good things to say about Hotchkis http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/muscle-cars/1970-hotchkis-dodge-challenger-340-ta/ but take that for what it's worth.

[matrout76]

I've recently been through this as well.  I ended up going with Hotchkis, but am using the XV Chassis stiffening components. 

What all did you get from XV?  Did you get the XV Inner Fender Braces and Lower Radiator Support?  Have you installed them yet?  Any Pictures?

Thanks!
Matt

[THE STIG]

No I havent gotten any of it yet still waiting for the money the government owes me, but I think now I'm going to opt for the package deal from Summit on the Hotchkis kit. But I will post when I get it all in.

[suntech]

As far as i know, and as i can see on pictures, the Hotchkis frame connectors are a 1,5x2,5 tube, bolted or welded in each end. The XV and US cartool ones are U channels that gets welded in each end and up in the floor, using the floor as the 4th side of the box. IMO the XV / US cartool connectors gives you a stiffer body. There are more work involved by installing them though.

[dangina]

As far as i know, and as i can see on pictures, the Hotchkis frame connectors are a 1,5x2,5 tube, bolted or welded in each end. The XV and US cartool ones are U channels that gets welded in each end and up in the floor, using the floor as the 4th side of the box. IMO the XV / US cartool connectors gives you a stiffer body. There are more work involved by installing them though.

some associations like the scca dont allow the weld in type connectors - i dont know if u race or not

[RamZCharger]

I've recently been through this as well.  I ended up going with Hotchkis, but am using the XV Chassis stiffening components. 

What all did you get from XV?  Did you get the XV Inner Fender Braces and Lower Radiator Support?  Have you installed them yet?  Any Pictures?

Thanks!
Matt

I bought the XV sub-frame connectors, inner fender braces, and lower radiator support.  The sub-frame connectors are in.  I have a guy working on the car for me, and he said there was a decent amount of trimming required, even though the connectors are "laser" cut.  But man they are pretty slick.  I also have the inner fender braces in.  These come with either A or E body instructions and would have interfered with the emergency brake, but we just moved them over a bit.  Also pretty slick.  I haven't installed the radiator support yet, still working out which radiator I will use, but this piece of hardware is impressive also.  It comes with lengthening extensions to fit a range or radiators.  Here are some pics . . .

[charger2fast4u]

looks goodi want to go with US cartool or XV motorsports for the frame connectors. on the XV inner fender braces would they get in the way of the tires if you run large diameter tires or lowered suspension? any pics of the radiator support brace even if it isnt installed yet?

[RamZCharger]

Here is a link to the XV radiator support - http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=20&cid=105&cdesc=Chassis%20Stiffening.  There are some additional pictures on this page of the component, and installed.

I don't anticipate any issues with tire rub on the inner fender braces.  I run 15" rims, and tire size I believe are 255 60 15 front 275 50 15 rear.  All of the XV cars run bigger wheels, with a low(er) profile tire.  Their 68 Charger runs 18s, utilizing all the chassis stiffening components and their level II suspension - http://www.xvmotorsports.com/sale/index_details.cfm?cat=cars&id=19.

Hotchkis offers factory ride height shocks, and lowered.  I am debating which to use at the moment and will definitely pull out the tape measure.  I liked the stance of my car with my wheels and tires, which I had installed before tear-down and with the factory suspension.  Below is a picture, which I think would be similar to the Hotchkis non-lowered shocks.

I've had XV on the phone a few times and they have always been very helpful, I believe Scott was the guy.  They can most likely address specific concerns you may have.

[Patronus]

some great info here: http://www.protouringmopar.com/
some beautiful frame connectors in the fab section!

[68RRFlyer]

Yup, that'd be my handy-work Darren's posted there.  I'm anxious to see the final result with the suspension in as well.  I haven't seen the parts in person, but from what Darren says, they are top notch.  No issues with tire rub on the front cowl reinforcements.  Plenthy of clearance there.  The one was moved in little to clear the emergency brake mounting bolts though.  Weld it in place where they say to and you can't mount the parking brake.  These seem to be quality pieces, but they are NOT just hold in place and weld.  It took some extensive trimming to make them fit, and it's to be expected in a 40+yr old car.  But overall, I'm very pleased with them and would do this upgrade without even thinking on a custom build.  I'm in the middle of trunk pan, extension, tailpanel/lower valance and full quarters on his car and it should be headed to the painter's around June.

Cheers  

[Patronus]

You did those? My brother raves about those. Were thinking about doing the same only with square holes on point. Beautiful work.

[HPP]

XV is about the most scienced out kit on the market for a suspension that retains all stock mounting locations. Since it was put together using 4 post rig simulations and combines stepped up suspension rates with specifically valved shocks, it acheives a significant increase in handling without a big sacrifice in ride comfort. If you want everything to look stock while improving performance, this is the kit to get.

Hotchkis is designed by a company with deep racing roots. They went after improvements by altering pick up locations and correcting the few faults with the factory design and layout. Through improving the motion of the suspension, they make it more predicatable and linear in its performance. The Hotchkis pieces to deviate considerably from stock appearance but produce great results if you like to push the limits of your car's handling.

[darrenb811]

My choices were:

Front:
> Firm Feel LCA, greasable pins & Poly bushes, reinforced
> Original Hemi K-Member braced/reinforced
> QA1 double adjustable shocks
> Firm feel 1.06 torsion bars
> Magnumforce double adjustable UCA (NOW replacing with Hotchkis)
> Firm Feel 1-1/4 front sway bar
> RMS adjustable strut rods
> Fatman 2" drop spindles (NOW replacing with Magnumforce 2" dropped spindles)
> Firm feel HD tie rods (NOW being replaced with Hotchkis)
> Wilwood 14" slotted vented drilled discs
> Wilwood TC6R Radial mount 6-piston calipers (custom mounting brackets as these are the largest calipers made by Wilwood)
> Firm Feel Stage 2 Power Steer box
[principally because I was not happy either running the full front weight/load of the vehicle through the upper shock tower (Magnumforce), or the visual look of the RMS/XV systems]

Rear:
> Unlawfulracing 4-link system (can't say enough good things about this system!) - check it out at unlawfulracing.com
> holding in the Dana (Moser) 60 with Wilwood 14" discs & 4-piston calipers.

My setup, I am sure it has some disadvantages, but overall I am happy with the front setup remaining on the original style crossmember.

[chargedup68]

DarrenB, Nice setup, mind if I ask  how much that front and rear suspension set you back?

[darrenb811]

DarrenB, Nice setup, mind if I ask  how much that front and rear suspension set you back?

Yep, I had to run around with the calculator etc.!
At todays RRP but EXCLUDING
* shipping
* exchange rate differences
* engine mounts
* wheels & tires
* brake lines & M/c & booster, etc
* driveshaft. etc.


The cost for the front setup:
  Suspension, Steering US $4,973
  Plus front Brakes US $3,278
  Plus custom  engineering & Misc AU $2,880
  Total Front circa ~$11,131

Rear setup:
   4-link   US $4,000
   Dana 60 (custom-specific build) including brakes $US 6,000
   Total rear circa ~ $10,000

Overall, for someone looking to replicate, around $21,100 would do it using the same parts.
Of course, this excludes the cost of mistakes & changes to your plans en-route, which added cost significant cost to mine. The shipping costs from US to Australia are also substantial. Front brake setup is custom on my application and this added significant cost.

[darrenb811]

forgot to mention, + the cost of modifications to install the 4-link rear.
> mini-tubbed to chassis rail.

[darrenb811]

DarrenB, Nice setup, mind if I ask  how much that front and rear suspension set you back?

Yep, I had to run around with the calculator etc.!
At todays RRP but EXCLUDING
* shipping
* exchange rate differences
* engine mounts
* wheels & tires
* brake lines & M/c & booster, etc
* driveshaft. etc.


The cost for the front setup:
  Suspension, Steering US $4,973
  Plus front Brakes US $3,278
  Plus custom  engineering & Misc AU $2,880
  Total Front circa ~$11,131

Rear setup:
   4-link   US $4,000
   Dana 60 (custom-specific build) including brakes $US 6,000
   Total rear circa ~ $10,000

Overall, for someone looking to replicate, around $21,100 would do it using the same parts.
Of course, this excludes the cost of mistakes & changes to your plans en-route, which added cost significant cost to mine. The shipping costs from US to Australia are also substantial. Front brake setup is custom on my application and this added significant cost.

Woops I forgot, there are $575 of core charges in there too, so the front system (not including brakes) is more like ~$4,398.