Why I Never Work on My Car

[Old Moparz]

Aside from whatever regular maintenance a house & yard needs, there are other things that suck up all your time. Anyone who's tackled a major project or repair at home knows what I mean. I've been avoiding installing a new roof because I know it's going to be a lot more work than simply tearing off the old one & laying down some new shingles. Add that the roof is very steep & unwalkable makes it even tougher. I have the roof brackets & have done roofs just as steep before, but it's a pain & slow going.

So I decided that I better get started. I'll tear off the shingles in the spring, but I have tons of preliminary work right now. I started to work on the living room ceiling right after Thanksgiving. In order to do a new roof on the house I had better inspect the structure a little more since I knew the roof had a sag as well as some water seepage from cracked asphalt shingles. I think the 25 year architectural roof shingles didn't last as long as they should have for a couple of reasons.

First, the rafters supporting the roof are 2x8's & span 20 feet between the front wall & the overhead main beam. That size may have been allowed by building code, but it wasn't a good idea. They should have been at least 2x10's minimum. The weight of the asphalt shingles over the years put a slight sag in it & caused the shingles to crack in a lot of places. If it didn't sag so much, almost 3 inches in less than 6 feet, the nailed down shingles wouldn't want to stretch to meet the sag.

Secondly, the insulation is almost as thick as the depth of the 2x8, so there is little or no air space for ventilation. If you don't have venting, the inside stays hotter & causes damage to the shingles. If they had used 2x10's with the same insulation that's there, there would be 2 inches of air space so the air could come in at the soffit vent under the gutter & travel all the way up to the ridge where the other vent is.

I figured this combination of problems needed to be corrected before a new roof is installed so I don't have the same thing happen all over again. After considering a few ways to tackle the repair, I decided to reinforce the roof with an additional beam. It cuts the 20 foot span into 2 smaller ones at 8 feet & 12 feet, small enough for the 2x8's to hold. Of course the cathedral ceiling makes it a challenge, so I set up my scaffolding, removed a strip of sheet rock in the ceiling & walls, then built a new beam out of 2x10's, plywood, construction adhesive, & screws.

The diagonal bracing attached to the front wall & the loft will eventually support the beam & shore up the house a lot better than before. It's probably overkill, but it can't hurt & will support a new roof with ease. I am also going to be adding a roof to the roof on the exterior. What I mean is, I am going to lay what is the equivalent of furring strips on the plywood roof after I tear off the shingles, then a layer of plywood, then the new shingles. This will give me the air space I need to vent the roof & a chance to hide the sag that I see every time I clean the gutters. I also plan to do something similar on the underside in the living room & put another layer of insulation in.

Here's some pics since everyone like pics. 

[Old Moparz]

The triangle window in the pics was a double pane piece of glass that was shoved into the framing & sided around. They put cedar trim around it & never flashed it. The wall soaked up water over the years & rotted the wall. I took the window out, repaired the wall, flashed the opening for the window & put it back in. The deck had to come off the house so I could remove the cedar siding. I still have to stain it, but at least it's structurally sound.

[Old Moparz]

Remember, never buy a house from someone who hired a builder that had crackheads for helpers.  

[vancamp]

looks like you got one heck of a project going on, and to think i was dreading laying some laminate flooring tommorow. good luck with it and dont fall off the roof.

[bakerhillpins]

Boy do I know what you mean...  Except it's what keeps me from owning a car.      or has for years anyhow.

I hate doing work up on scaffolding, Its a major PITA when you are working on your own. Trying to get the materials up there and then trying to hang them.  Be careful and bribe a few friends with beer and pizza when you need the extra hands. 

Yea, I never understood minimum codes on joists and rafters.    I had 2x10s put in my floors on 12' spans to keep the floor from bouncing all over the place plus it gave me room for stuff in the bays (basement ceiling). When you put on the furring strips and before the plywood top skin make sure to staple down some screen  under the furring and wrap it up over the ends. Do this at the bottom and top where air is venting in and out to keep bugs from getting up in there. They also make some plastic stuff that looks like corrugated cardboard that you can buy and cut to fit in the spaces in between rather than the screen.

Good luck!

[jb666]

First off, gorgeous house.. I LOVE the a-frame design!!!

Second, it's always a can of worms, isn't it?? You really ran into one...

[NHCharger]

Looks like fun. Damn that is a steep roof, the pitch looks way more than 12/12. Are you going to attempt to shingle that yourself or you going to hire a roofing contractor?
Reminds me of the first house I built in 1983 with the T&G siding and contemporary look.

[Old Moparz]

looks like you got one heck of a project going on, and to think i was dreading laying some laminate flooring tommorow. good luck with it and dont fall off the roof.

I'll do the laminate flooring for you if you want to do my roof.   

Boy do I know what you mean...  Except it's what keeps me from owning a car.      or has for years anyhow.

I hate doing work up on scaffolding, Its a major PITA when you are working on your own. Trying to get the materials up there and then trying to hang them.  Be careful and bribe a few friends with beer and pizza when you need the extra hands. 

Yea, I never understood minimum codes on joists and rafters.    I had 2x10s put in my floors on 12' spans to keep the floor from bouncing all over the place plus it gave me room for stuff in the bays (basement ceiling). When you put on the furring strips and before the plywood top skin make sure to staple down some screen  under the furring and wrap it up over the ends. Do this at the bottom and top where air is venting in and out to keep bugs from getting up in there. They also make some plastic stuff that looks like corrugated cardboard that you can buy and cut to fit in the spaces in between rather than the screen.

Good luck!

When my wife & I first bought this place we barely had any money for over a year. When the timing chain in my Scamp went, it sat 3 or 4 months until I got my tax refund so I could afford to get the engine rebuilt. It was my daily driver at the time so I used my wife's duster with 200,000 miles while she drove her Mustang. It was years before I had money to put into anything hobby related, so just be patient.

The work on the scaffold has been slow going, but at least it's warm inside the house.    I added a beam in my basement a long time ago for the same reason, the floors bounced too much with the 2x8's. It didn't help that they drilled 2" holes through most of them to run wires & copper pipe. 

First off, gorgeous house.. I LOVE the a-frame design!!!

Second, it's always a can of worms, isn't it?? You really ran into one...

Thanks...and even with all the worms I still like it too. 

Looks like fun. Damn that is a steep roof, the pitch looks way more than 12/12. Are you going to attempt to shingle that yourself or you going to hire a roofing contractor?
Reminds me of the first house I built in 1983 with the T&G siding and contemporary look.

I believe it's a 12/12, the cuts I made around the triangle window when I repair the wall were 45 degrees. I got 3 estimates last year for a tear off & replacement & almost had a heart attack. one for $7000......one for $9000......and one for almost $11,000.   

I priced out the materials & came in around $1700 for 18 or 19 square. (I forget the exact SF, but have it written down) The prices didn't include any repair to damages they may find or the reinforcement work I am doing right now. I can't imagine what that would cost & don't want to know. I "may" get a roofer in the spring, but my wife was laid off at the school so I doubt it.



I took vacation time this past week & this coming week to do this. I hope I get most of it finished. I'm done for the night, I'm beat, & having a Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale now.

Thanks for the encouraging words.     

[b5blue]

Now they use engineered truss and joist of plywood laminate, much better. I was a steel framer for many years and it's my first choice.

[NHCharger]

I believe it's a 12/12, the cuts I made around the triangle window when I repair the wall were 45 degrees. I got 3 estimates last year for a tear off & replacement & almost had a heart attack. one for $7000......one for $9000......and one for almost $11,000.   

I priced out the materials & came in around $1700 for 18 or 19 square. (I forget the exact SF, but have it written down) The prices didn't include any repair to damages they may find or the reinforcement work I am doing right now. I can't imagine what that would cost & don't want to know. I "may" get a roofer in the spring, but my wife was laid off at the school so I doubt it.

Must be the camera angle in your second pic that makes the roof look steep. I was looking at the triangular window and doing the pythagorean theorem.

Roofing prices are high, materials went way up in the last two years and around here disposal costs are brutal. If you are going to shingle it yourself one trick I use to do when shingling an existing roof that needed roof brackets was to shingle from the top down. I'd only rip off what I know I could do in one day and just needed a piece of felt paper to cover the gap between the new and existing shingles. Plus when your done you won't see any marks on your roof where someone has dragged something across the new shingles.

[Old Moparz]

Must be the camera angle in your second pic that makes the roof look steep. I was looking at the triangular window and doing the pythagorean theorem.

Roofing prices are high, materials went way up in the last two years and around here disposal costs are brutal. If you are going to shingle it yourself one trick I use to do when shingling an existing roof that needed roof brackets was to shingle from the top down. I'd only rip off what I know I could do in one day and just needed a piece of felt paper to cover the gap between the new and existing shingles. Plus when your done you won't see any marks on your roof where someone has dragged something across the new shingles.

I think the reason I was in shock over the cost is because 2 people I know had tear offs & replacement for $4500 & $5500, both with more roof than me. I expected the steepness to increase the price, but double? Fortunately I can borrow a dump trailer & dispose of the shingles at a materials recycling plant for free, or at least a case of good beer. A dumpster is about $400 for 10 days, but the dump trailer I can borrow could be for longer.

I like your idea of tearing off sections near the top first & protecting the lower ones in the process. I'll probably try to  do just that if I can, but may not be able to in the front where the sag is. I have to get back up there with a string line to see where I have to build up, or shim the low areas. The front of the house is all one continuous area, but the rear is 2 smaller areas. The rear is in better shape since there is an attic that's vented properly & not a cathedral ceiling.

[PocketThunder]

Holy Crap Bob.  Wish i could help but i'm a thousand miles away.. awe shucks!   

[Old Moparz]

Holy Crap Bob.  Wish i could help but i'm a thousand miles away.. awe shucks!   

Head east, I'll let you stay in my camping trailer & stock up on the beer. 

[Bob T]

Whew, that is one steep pitch  , take it careful....Ive been working until dark the last 3 nights doing landscaping and planting out, had 10 cubes of mix delivered and moved it with wheelbarrow and squaremouth shovel, 3 cubes of stones next weekend.
Also had Kitchen /dining room reno going on at the same time, as you rightly say, it takes a while to get the fun coupons ( $$$ ) together to do these projects. I find the landscaping uses up quite a lot of beer tho 

[BigBlackDodge]

If the roof were any steeper you could put siding on it!



BBD

[Old Moparz]

If the roof were any steeper you could put siding on it!



BBD