Need help with camshaft.

[Brass]

Hoping to get some advice on which one to put into a 72 440.  All I know about the engine is that it was rebuilt to 68 HP specs, and the existing cam seems to be pretty mild.  I'll also be using: stock iron heads and springs, a CH4B intake, 700 Holley double pumper (4778s), HP manifolds with 2.5" H-pipe, round ultra flos, orange box ignition, 11" stall converter (2800-3000) from TurboAction, shift kit, and 3.23 sure grip.  It will occasionally see the freeway for extended periods.

So any idea what would work best with this combo?  Just hoping to wake the car up a little more.  Aluminum heads might come into play down the road but that isn't something I can afford right now.  Also, would it make a big difference if I switched to a 750 cfm?  I wanted the slightly smaller carb for throttle response - and thought that a 700 cfm should be good up to 5500 rpm. 

Any thoughts would be welcome and appreciated!  Thanks.

[Brass]

So... Voodoo 60302 or 60303?  Engle K56 K58?  Would those be noticeably better than stock? 

I know its important for everything to act in concert and want to avoid a mis-match. 

[flyinlow]

I have a Vodoo 60303 in a 446 10.5 cr/ EDDY heads/headers eps 800 carb/3.55 works well. Idles 900 rpm ,power brakes work. Put an OD trans in. Might have gone with the 60302 with the engine runing around 2000 rpm most of the time now.

[1Bad70Charger]

I am sure our resident Cam and Hi Perf. Guru, Ron (Firefigher) will respond soon enough and get you pointed in the right direction as he is EXTREMELY knowlegable and always very helpful here!  

I posted up a similar post about 1 month ago and was given some great feedback on my set-up that is fairly similar to yours, except I will be running a dynamic 9.5 inch converter that will stall up to around 3500 and I am running 3.91 gears in my 69 Roadrunner. Therefore the one cam that Ron suggests for me that says will give my car a real attitude would probalby be too much cam for your use but still some good advice and info here. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64847.0.html

[Brass]

Thanks for posting the link.  We do appear to be having similar considerations right now.  Though your Roadrunner's build certainly is a step or two more aggressive than what I'm doing; across the board.  It promises to be pretty radical, and I can't wait to hear how you like it after everything comes together!   
I *think* I'm on the right track with mine for what I want out of the car.  Performance has been a little underwhelming but I think I can attribute some of that to the existing torque converter.  (Out of a 72 Imperial - and probably a 12".)  In any case, I definitely want to run what I'm doing by the incredibly knowledgeable folks here, and try to save myself the hassle of having to redo things any more than I already have.

[firefighter3931]

Welcome to the forum Brass 

With a manifold exhaust build you want to keep the cam's LSA wide (112*) to reduce overlap to help with cylinder scavenging due to the restrictive exhaust. 

Here's an excellent off the shelf grind that works with the stock 12in converter : Crower HDP271 (PN 32242)

If you're stepping up to a better converter like the TA 11in street hemi piece : Crower HDP282 (PN 32243)

http://crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

A good valvespring that will work with both of these cams is the Comp #911 ....drops right on the stock head with factory retainers/locks.

Both of these cams will not require any head mods either because the valve lift is right at .500 or slightly under. Anything over .510 requires mods to the valve guides for additional clearance. Both of these are drop in and go.

Another option would be a custom Engle K56 cut on a 112* LSA



Ron

[Brass]

Ron, thanks for the welcome - and the information.  That is exactly what I was hoping for!!  (Very excited now.) 

The 12" torque converter is not long for this world so I will go with the second cam you recommended.  Can I get away without a double roller timing set?

Also, Id like to beg one more question:  For the converter, I am planning to go with the 17501 street hemi piece.  However, I see that the Dynamic converters are becoming more and more recommended on this board.  I spoke with both Paul at TurboAction and Sean at Dynamic, and still feel a little unsettled.  Paul thinks I should go with the 10" 17805st with 3000-3500, and Sean thought all I need is about 2500 flash.  So I cut the baby in half and settled on the 17501.  (Paul doesn't think I need a cooler for that one.)

I just want something a little better than stock that I won't notice until I mash it.  But I don't want mushy shifts or for it to feel like its slipping around town, up hill, or at cruising speed.  Do you think I made a good choice?

Many kind thanks!

[1Bad70Charger]

The only info I am qualified to give in response to your latest question is a TRANNY COOLER is good cheap insurance (less than $100) and you should DEFINTLEY run one with any aftermarket converter on a street driven car as it will generate more heat, and heat kills trannys, and for $100 it just would not make sense not to run one and risk causing damage to your 727 tranny!  

[firefighter3931]

You're welcome Brass....good to have you aboard  

You don't necessarily need a double roller timing chain as long as yours is in good shape....check it for stretch when you disassemble for the cam swap. If it does need replacing i highly recommend the Comp "Magnum" double roller set. It's cheap at $50 and the chain is of superior quality. Many of the high dollar roller sets i've seen have experienced chain stretch after a short period of time....not the case with the Comp sets i've used to date.  

Your instincts are correct...the 11in hemi converter is the right choice with 3.23 gearing. The 10in is a bit loose for mild gearing, inmo. Member KamKuda has one of those 11in hemi units behind a pump gas 408 stroker and it's awesome. I recommended it to him and it's a great fit for his combo....drives around town like a stocker and flashes up real nice with a stab of the throttle. The ragtop Cuda boils the hides through all 3 grears and won't stop until you let off on the throttle.  

Another member has a 505 stroker that i helped design and wanted a good converter for his 69 Charger with 3.23 gears. I recommended the street hemi part and when he called Turbo Action they talked him into the 10in piece. Mike was not happy and returned it & had it replaced with my original recommended hemi replacement piece and couldn't be happier. The car is an animal at WOT yet docile as a kitten cruising around town.  

Bottom line....the 11in is a good choice with mild gearing and the appropriate cam profile. The HDP282 is ideal with that converter from my experience. I had that grind in my old 440 with a 2500 stall and it was excellent. The cam makes lots of manifold vacuum and is easy to tune. Degree it in on a 108* intake centerline and you'll be happy with the results, especially with a nice CH4B dual plane and double pumper. Be prepared for lots of wheel spin and burning rubber.    



Ron

[Brass]

Awesome - thanks again, Ron.  You truly understand the "riddle of speed."  Time to put an order in at Summit!  I'll get the cooler too.

[Brass]

Hi, Ron - I thought of one more thing.  Eventually, I'll be going to a 28" tire.  Will I still be safe with the HDP282?  (I hope so because its on order - I can still exchange it though.)

[Brass]

I don't have a part number but I just found out the existing cam is an RV 272 or 284 MP purple cam.  (Whichever one is a step up from the standard hemi grind...)  From what I've read on here, these are not very well liked and past their prime.

[1Bad70Charger]

I don't have a part number but I just found out the existing cam is an RV 272 or 284 MP purple cam.  (Whichever one is a step up from the standard hemi grind...)  From what I've read on here, these are not very well liked and past their prime.

Ron and others like Cooter I am sure will chime in and advise you to stay away from those prehistoric purple cams, that are using technology from 30 years ago,  .  The new modern grind cams with 30+ years in technological advances (and performance) is the way you want to go.   Comp. cam offers a bunch of choices with their modern grinds for us Mopar folk with their extreme high energy cams and so does Engle Cams, and several others!  

[Cooter]

Well, It all depends on what you want to do with your ride as to the usefulness of the "Old Purple Shaft" cams...The 284/.484 is a huge cam when dealing with Duration (241 @ .050)..While it sounds great and performs great, I wouldn't recommend this cam for a daily driver that is looking for Idle-5500 Torque and good idle qualities, but I sure wouldn't rule the Cam completely obsolete either...The "Purple shaft" cams are ground on old Crane "Fireball" cores I've heard..I do have a soft spot for the COMP cams..

[firefighter3931]

Hi, Ron - I thought of one more thing.  Eventually, I'll be going to a 28" tire.  Will I still be safe with the HDP282?  (I hope so because its on order - I can still exchange it though.)

Sure, the HDP282 grind will work fine with the taller tires. The converter flash is still the same regardless of the tire diameter. It might accelerate slightly slower due to the taller tire but it will still pull pretty good.  On the street you won't notice much difference and at the track it would lose a tenth or two. 

I don't have a part number but I just found out the existing cam is an RV 272 or 284 MP purple cam.  (Whichever one is a step up from the standard hemi grind...)  From what I've read on here, these are not very well liked and past their prime.

The MP 284 cam is one size up from the street hemi cam. Using the Crower 282 grind is a step in the right direction...especially with manifold exhaust and 3.23 gears. The MP 284 really needs headers, 3200 stall and 3.91 gears to work properly. It sounds like the current build is overcammed. 

The Crower will produce better throttle response, increased vacuum and increased bottom end power/off idle torque. You'll like it and the car will be easier to tune and more enjoyable to drive. 



Ron

[Brass]

Great - thanks again for the additional affirmation, Ron!!  I've made some mis-steps in the quest to get this car to pull.  Gears would be an obvious change but as I mentioned, it'll see some freeway use.  Glad to know a taller tire won't overly compound that issue.  Now I really can't wait to get that cam swapped out.

[68r/t]

I just got my 440   going that has a hdp 282 cam, 9.4 comp ratio, ch4b manifold, hipo exhaust manifolds with a tti 2 1/2 exhaust with ultraflow mufflers.
It sounds great at idle with a nice mild lope and  seems to be very responsive,  I,m yet to drive it but it does seem like it will go well.
the sound from those ultra flows is great also.
I think you will be happy with that cam..