Runs in clear coat...GRRRRRR...any suggestions?

[AKcharger]

Hi Guys

Quick story is I'm painting an old 4 runner (mini restoration) and though t it would be perfect for "training" on before I shot any of the Chargers in the future. Well I'm getting training alright! about everyting that could go wrong is going wrong. Well, last train wreck I'm experiencing is the clear coat. When I 1st layed it on it had orange peel (OP) AND runs. My new Pal Mark showed me a trick with a razor blade to semi-fix the runs and I blocked it with 1000 for another coat of clear. Everthing looked good (in fact while wet sanding the paint looked AWESOME)

Well today I shot it again and it looked perfect!...for about 2 minutes...then it ran everywhere. Seems if I lay it on too light it would OP and what I thought was perfect distance...it runs. Only good news is I still have just under a 1/2 gallon of clear left so I can spray it again. but before I do I need to know what the problem is, any guesses???

- 19 PSI at the gun
- PPG Concept clear with 167 reducer
- 2:1 ratio
- temp 63°
- Humidity 70%
- Dew point 54°
- keeping tip of gun about8-10 inches from surface and moving somewhat slow
- never had this problem before with any primer or touch-up work I've done (this is my 1st full paint)

[superbirdtom]

The problem is surface temperature and the reducer you are using and that you are not letting it flash long enough between coats. I don't use omni but you need to use the fastest reducer and hardner and don't put the clear on as heavy as you did.   get the car prepped again and this time spray a tack coat at high pressure  moving your gun along quickly not even attempting to get a full gloss coat.

don't put on the next first full wet coat until the clear on the paper is tacky to the touch. after you put on the full wet coat wait again maybe even 20 minutes before your next coat. then put on your full second coat.

The problem is too that todays clears are very thick and most folks expect the clear to gloss out as soon as they make a pass with their gun . that will not happen it takes about a minute for the coats to flow out fully. so I believe you made the mistake of trowling too much clear on too fast. don't think about the gloss it will come. don't worry about a dry paint job you can always buff it out. now you have huge runs that will require a lot of blocking to get out to perfectly flat again.   hey I paint about 3 jobs a day and I still hget a hanger here and there in a controlled booth so don't feel bad
just try again and be really patient and also the surface temp on the car has to be at least warm if it is cold your gonna get runs. let me know how it turns out.      SBT

just tryag

[AKcharger]

Thanks SBT

I'm smellin' what your cookin' I think I did lay it on too thick, I'll try that "tack coat" approach...makes sense. I did double check and 167 is the fastest hardener they have.

Oh, the paint supplier guy said try 35 psi at teh gun to help atomize the clear...does that sound right?

Well got half the runs scraped off, about 8 more hours of reprep and I'll be ready to try it again! 

[superbirdtom]

I never even pay attention to what anyone says about what air pressure anyone says .I do it all by feel. I have been painting so long that I can do it in my sleep. BUT yes turn it up to atomize it. the manufactuers have to spell out low pressures by law to save their butts on all their directions. I always turn up the pressure on the sides and down when spraying top surfaces.  but be patient between coats thats the biggest mistake people always make.

Now I use slow reducer but I have a constant 70 degrees air and surface temperature.  A little trick for garage shoots is close garage door and get the garage as hot as possible so the surface temp on the car is cookin then get ready to spray and open the garage door turn on the fans and get a coat on before that chilly outdoor air cools the surface of the car down. 

anytime  SBT

[Supercharged Riot]

Im trained to spray about 6 inches from the surface with a 50% overlapping pattern.

[Silver R/T]

you should put semi wet coat on there first and let it flash off for 5-10 mins before laying on full wet coat. You need a lot of practice before you can spray automotive paint. Don't get upset, every painter gets his "first" runs until they get a hold of gun. I paint every day so I can lay out any paint you give me. There's too many factors that can go wrong when painting, tip size, distance, spray pattern, too slow/too fast, etc. Just keep practicing!

[hemi-hampton]

Even with the right technique if the metal or surface is cold the paint will want to jump right off it & run. Heat the Garage & car before spraying. LEON.

[Silver R/T]

do you have light setup? Looks pretty dark, can't imagine myself shooting in darkness lol. You need to see where you're spraying, watch paint flow out.

[1969chargerrtse]

I spray at 35 to 40lbs.  I agree the 19 was way to low.

[superbirdtom]

we are having a heatwave in ketchikan right now . in my booth I usually spray at 70. now with the heat turned off my booth says it is 89 degrees yesterday.  wow  reminds me of california. my primer was drying so fast i waited 1 minute between coats. and to paint I had to really move fast, it is amazing what a difference temp makes . but i have done many many garage and non heated booth jobs through the years too .   did you get er redone yet??

[TylerCharger69]

I'm somewhat a novice at the whole painting thing, but I can tell you that temperature does make a world of difference. They usually sell slow, medium, or fast reducer, depending on the temperature you plan to shoot at.  My first couple of paint jobs looked excellent when I got finished...I mean...perfect!!!  Left the booth, came back about an hour later and there were runs all over!!! (Like the one pictured above)  Sometimes the paint won't fall until a little while later....then it's time to brush up on your four-letter words....

[hemi-hampton]

If you try to lay it down glass smooth with zero orange peel good chance you come back a few minutes later & it's like Niagra falls on the floor. I remember sraying Sikkens high solid clear for the first time 10 years ago. Looked orange peely but a few minutes later it all flowed out smooth & no runs. Just takes Practice & a feel for the particular product as they vary. LEON.

[AKcharger]

Copy all guys. I had my pal Mark stop over the other night and he ID' another problem, my gun wasn't putting out a good "fan" pattern it was too concentrated (kind of like a phaser from Star Trek) so here's what I figure my goofs were

- Temp...could have been warmer
- Paint gun...wrong pattern (actually wrong gun, I need to get another one)
- Too heavy on initial coat


So we'll try again here in another week or so and see how it goes, like I said it's training so no big deal except it's eating up a lot of time

[superbirdtom]

you probably had what i call a ball pattern. just adjust it while spraying on a test panel should be about 9 inches wide at 9 inches from panel.  i am sure it will be better next time .

[AKcharger]

OK, blocked it out and cleared it again with better results. I was a bit more "timid" this time so while there are no runs, it does have some serious orange peal. Since I've already blocked it down I'm not too worried about that, plus I needed to learn how to color sand and buff while I'm at it  

So next questions on sanding/buffing

- I was going to go with 1000 followed by 2000 then buff it
- How long do I need to wait to sand it? cure temp is about 65° for 24 hours
- Should I use a sanding block with each one or is there a point I should just hand sand?
- At the paint shop there is literally a dozen "cut and polish" products, what do I REALLY need? sure would like to use one product and be done not have to use 5 diffrent ones
- I was going to buy a $50 variable speed angle buffer from Shucks...is that suitable or the worst thing in the world?
- Any tips?

Well, I'm getting what I wanted...I'm learning  

Here's some low quality shots

[superbirdtom]

On todays clears in your condition s . I would say 3 days wait to sand and buff.  now if I were you I would use a soft pad to wrap my sandpaper around ,not a hard block.  I would use only  3M  1000 grit w&d paper. then go over it with some 1200 paper. thats it. and then use some 3m perfect it cutting compound. which is the only compound you can use with different pads to get to the end without using a different compound. 

But you need a white 3m wol double sided pad and a yellow 3m wool double sided pad and a foam pad. now fr a buffer I use FLEX buffers only  just look them up online.    good luck!   you have to hit these catalyzed clears before they get too hard or its a nightmare.   then you have to go to gritier compounds.           good luck.

[TylerCharger69]

I, myself usually wetsand about 2 hours after the clear has dried with some 2000.....then I buff it out with some 6000 compound....just don't sand through the clearcoat!!!  and...I ALWAYS do that sanding procedure by hand with a soft block.  It's really easy to burn through the clearcoat with an air or electric sander. Just my preference though