Best way to burnout

[flyinlow]

I thought that when you put a 727/518 in manual low , that the low band helped the spague hold the rear drum. So when doing burnouts for kicks at the Mopar Nationals I put the trans. in manual low which reduced the drivetrain shocks from shifting and made the burnout easier to control.

M.E .  arttical said never luanch or burnout in manual low it will quickly destroy the trans.       Am I wrong?

[RD]

that is for valve bodies that do not have low band apply, BUT.. it does put a lot of stress on your rear sprague assembly so it is not recommended.  rear sprague failure leads to a big boom btw.

[flyinlow]

that is for valve bodies that do not have low band apply, BUT.. it does put a lot of stress on your rear sprague assembly so it is not recommended.  rear sprague failure leads to a big boom btw.

Not sure I follow you. With a stock valve body is putting the transmission in manual low making the transmission stronger by applying the low/reverse?


I have seen 904 neutral dropped repeatably until sprague ripped loose and ruined the case.

[Ghoste]

I would disagree on the part about launching it in first.  The problem occurs during the burnout when the car comes out of the water and hits the dry pavement going from big rpm to nothing quickly, during a launch the car is doing the exact opposite.  Not to say the conditions couldn't be duplicated in a launch but once underway hopefully you aren't going to unload the sprag the same way.

[mauve66]

unless you have a line lock all burn outs should start in 2nd then shift up to third, this prevents the  "rollover" of the bearings and the possible explosion afterward

[maxwellwedge]

Do lots of drugs and listen to crap. 

[bull]

I've decided that the art of burnouts cannot be learned. It is an innate ability. Either you've got it or you don't.

[maxwellwedge]

I've decided that the art of burnouts cannot be learned. It is an innate ability. Either you've got it or you don't.

[John_Kunkel]

unless you have a line lock all burn outs should start in 2nd then shift up to third, this prevents the  "rollover" of the bearings and the possible explosion afterward

Kinda hard to start a burnout in 2nd with an automatic VB, put it in 2nd and it's still in 1st.

The rear band apply is key to starting the burnout in 1st gear.

[tan top]

  movin burnouts .... with out line lock
either back up at about 3-5 mph ..then as your still rolling click it in drive & nail the gas hard    ,  or stick it in D or 1st foot hard on the brake &  spin the motor to 1800  2000 rpm or just before the rear tires start to spin  , simultaneously let off the brake & stand on the gas ...  the first one i only use to do before i tore my charger apart for a resto ,  would not do it that way now  , too agressive 

[firefighter3931]

unless you have a line lock all burn outs should start in 2nd then shift up to third, this prevents the  "rollover" of the bearings and the possible explosion afterward

Kinda hard to start a burnout in 2nd with an automatic VB, put it in 2nd and it's still in 1st.

The rear band apply is key to starting the burnout in 1st gear.

John is correct, a full manual valvebody is required to do a 2nd gear burnout. 

If starting out in first gear just footbrake/linelock in 1st and shift as soon as the wheels start spinning into second. 


Ron

[flyinlow]

[
Kinda hard to start a burnout in 2nd with an automatic VB, put it in 2nd and it's still in 1st.

The rear band apply is key to starting the burnout in 1st gear.
[/quote]



This car is not used for drag racing. Its been to the track a couple of times, spends most of its time cruising in overdrive.

I do give into an occational burn out or  a 0-100 on a freeway ramp.

So using manual low to start lets the low/reverse band help the sprag hold the rear drum and is a good thing?


I read an artical in M.E. about building a bullet proof transmission. They said never do waterbox burn outs in first always start in second. (same thing in my case)

I kind of wish I had not read it. They make it sound like every torqueflight is a ticking bomb. Waiting for the front drum to explode.

[BigBlockSam]

I've decided that the art of burnouts cannot be learned. It is an innate ability. Either you've got it or you don't.

practice makes perfect 

[Beer]

I am a line lock kind of guy...

If ya ain't cheating you aint trying 

My Brakes are not plumbed yet, but I have the Line Lock in the box ready to be installed (Summit Racing)

[FLG]

Kinda hard to start a burnout in 2nd with an automatic VB, put it in 2nd and it's still in 1st.

The rear band apply is key to starting the burnout in 1st gear.




This car is not used for drag racing. Its been to the track a couple of times, spends most of its time cruising in overdrive.

I do give into an occational burn out or  a 0-100 on a freeway ramp.

So using manual low to start lets the low/reverse band help the sprag hold the rear drum and is a good thing?


I read an artical in M.E. about building a bullet proof transmission. They said never do waterbox burn outs in first always start in second. (same thing in my case)

I kind of wish I had not read it. They make it sound like every torqueflight is a ticking bomb. Waiting for the front drum to explode.

Thats because of the transition from wet pavement to dry, puts alot of stress on the tranny.

[mauve66]

when i said 2nd i didn't mean the tranny would be in 2nd only the stick, this would prevent the driver from forgetting to upshift when the tranny normally would at full throttle and when you let off the throttle and its still in first gear the sprag bearings roll over and cause the explosion.

YOU DON"T WANT TO ROLL BACKWARDS AND DROP IT IN DRIVE AS YOU NAIL IT THIS IS AS BAD AS A NEUTRAL DROP AND COULD GET YOU KILLED IF THE MOTOR WAS MAKING MORE POWER THAN THE TRANNY WAS SETUP FOR. sure the front end lifts and looks cool but............................

[John_Kunkel]

The design of the sprag (roller clutch) makes it necessary for the unit to have some resistance to turning in order for the rollers to seat firmly, with the tires spinning is water there is little load on the sprag and the rollers can "skid" instead of rolling or seating firmly; skidding will eventually cause flat spots on the rollers and the sprag will fail.

The only practical way to firmly seat the rollers is to apply the brakes and throttle up a little with the transmission in Drive (or "2"), this will firmly seat the rollers without shocking them; then quickly shift to "1" which will apply the rear band. If you start the burnout from this condition and then shift to 2nd there will be minimal strain on the sprag.

[mauve66]

The design of the sprag (roller clutch) makes it necessary for the unit to have some resistance to turning in order for the rollers to seat firmly, with the tires spinning is water there is little load on the sprag and the rollers can "skid" instead of rolling or seating firmly; skidding will eventually cause flat spots on the rollers and the sprag will fail.

The only practical way to firmly seat the rollers is to apply the brakes and throttle up a little with the transmission in Drive (or "2"), this will firmly seat the rollers without shocking them; then quickly shift to "1" which will apply the rear band. If you start the burnout from this condition and then shift to 2nd there will be minimal strain on the sprag.

but not everyone will remember that part when your smiling ear to ear and sniffing the burnt rubber thats floating into the car

[flyinlow]

The design of the sprag (roller clutch) makes it necessary for the unit to have some resistance to turning in order for the rollers to seat firmly, with the tires spinning is water there is little load on the sprag and the rollers can "skid" instead of rolling or seating firmly; skidding will eventually cause flat spots on the rollers and the sprag will fail.

The only practical way to firmly seat the rollers is to apply the brakes and throttle up a little with the transmission in Drive (or "2"), this will firmly seat the rollers without shocking them; then quickly shift to "1" which will apply the rear band. If you start the burnout from this condition and then shift to 2nd there will be minimal strain on the sprag.

I think I am following you now. That sounds like a good procedure.

If I want to upgrade the sprag what is a good choice  for a 470hp/525tq 446 ? Needs to have a resonable life expectancy in normal driving also.

If you put a better sprag in do you think you need an aftermarket front drum in a street car?

Thanks , Craig

[tan top]

when i said 2nd i didn't mean the tranny would be in 2nd only the stick, this would prevent the driver from forgetting to upshift when the tranny normally would at full throttle and when you let off the throttle and its still in first gear the sprag bearings roll over and cause the explosion.

YOU DON"T WANT TO ROLL BACKWARDS AND DROP IT IN DRIVE AS YOU NAIL IT THIS IS AS BAD AS A NEUTRAL DROP AND COULD GET YOU KILLED IF THE MOTOR WAS MAKING MORE POWER THAN THE TRANNY WAS SETUP FOR. sure the front end lifts and looks cool but............................

yeah i guess it   might  not be kind on the trans , but having just got my charger & being 17 ..  nothing like all the info & the internet was not invented then , what do you do    , had forgotten i done this kind of stuff , until this thread  & been reading about   about 727 explosions for years ...the penny never dropped before , 
    i was luck then i did not grenade the transmission 

[John_Kunkel]

Losing a sprag doesn't automatically mean the front drum will explode, when the sprag fails the front drum turns at 2.20 times crankshaft speed so a failure in a street rig that turns 5500 rpm won't be as likely to blow a drum as will a 7500 rpm race car. Also, drum condition plays a big part, burned/heat-fatigued drums will be more likely to blow but production quality plays a part too.

Read on:

http://www.tcsproducts.com/images/stories/MoparProds/727drumtests.jpg