will the front disc brake set up on an 86 chrysler fifth ave. work on a charger?

[police1]

has anyone ever used the disc brake set up on an 85-89 chrysler fith ave. on their 69 charger? or know if it would work and what all is involved? thanks guys for any help!!

[Back N Black]

I have the spindles from a 75 A body, but the rest of the hardware i.e.. pads, calipers are from a 86 Chrysler fifth ave. flex lines from 73 RoadRunner.

[71charger_fan]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1343.0.html

[71charger_fan]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6622.0.html

[Bad 69 Charger]

I am doing this also, this is what i found out, that article in mopar action is long bit very informative, this is part of what is says about using later stuff   ---

Do not succumb to the temptation to use "lookalike" knuckles from later Mopars, such as 73-up B/R-bodies, F/J/M bodies, etc. These parts, while visually very similar, are taller, altering suspension geometry (camber change, bump steer, etc.), and possibly forcing the ball joints beyond their designed range, a/k/a "over angling". Also do not swap the knuckles side-to-side to mount the caliper toward the rear, this causes brake hose routing difficulties. While the correct mounting avoids these problems, on some cars you may encounter swaybar-to-caliper interference. We suggest dealing with that via other methods, described later. Using the correct knuckle avoids any of these potential pitfalls, and results in a "factory engineered" installation. Hey, Chrysler paid those engineers big bucks to get it right, so you might as well take advantage of their knowhow. Plus, we're getting it for free!---

i too thought it would be hard to find old spindles in junk yards from the parts list he provided, i found these on e-bay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-B-E-Body-Spindles-with-Caliper-Brackets_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem200319495158QQitemZ200319495158QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesbeing a little scared of these things made in china and not any good, i called these guys, their company name is Pirate Jack in north carolina, the spindles and caliper brackets are correct and are forged instead of cast, i called them to talk about them, they do take the a-17 inner bearing and a-2 outter bearing with the seal 5121, this is the list of parts,

Photo key number     Description     Qty.     Mopar P/N     Aftermarket brand, P/N     Original Application     Notes, sources
1    Knuckle, L    1    3402629*    Master Power    '73-74 E- body, disc- equipped '73-76 A- body    Junkyard, or new repros from Master Power Brakes, Inc
2    Knuckle, R    1    3402628*    Master Power    Same    Same
3    Rotor, HD, 11.75" unicast    2    4126545*    EIS D17038    '76-'78 B- body police, '79-up R- body police    New suggested
3A    Rotor, HD, 10.87" unicast
(opt., see note)    2    3880685    EIS D17032    Diplomat, Volare, etc. police    Opt.- use w/14" wheels
4    Caliper, L    1    3744481*    EIS RC6066    '70-72 B- body; '70- 74 E-body    Pin type. See text for slider info.
5    Caliper, R    1    3744480*    EIS RC6065    Same    Same
6    Caliper adapters    2    3880557*    _    '76-'78 B- body w/pin- type calipers    Junkyard. See text for slider- type info.
6A    Caliper adapters - opt.    2    3580839*
3461977*    -    '70-74 E- body; '70- 75 B-body    For 10.87" rotors and 14-in. wheels
7    Adapter bolts    2    6030952    _    Most disc cars    Use new
8    Caliper pins    4
2-pr.    4094147*    EIS H5017    Any Mopar w/pin calipers    Inspect used ones carefully
9    Pads
(semi- met., pin- type)    1 set    4049700*    FMSI D39    Any Mopar w/pin calipers    Race compound available - see photos
10    Splash shield, L    1    3880519*    -    Most '73-up Mopars    Omit for HD or race use
11    Splash shield, R    1    3880518*    -    Same    Same
12    Seal, splash shield    2    2944704    -    Same    Same
but all of this is in this link, this has already been put on here but here is the link to the entire article, this guy really knows his stuff,
13    Hyd. hose    2    3766616*    -    '70-72 B,E- body    Use new. This number is for pin- type only.
14    Hose seal washer    2    6030084    -    Same    Same
15    Inner wheel bearing    2    5252823    Bower/BCA A-17    All '73-up disc Mopars    Re-use outer bearing, washer, nut, nut lock
16    Seals    2    3580723    National 5121    Same    -

Note: this chart lists components for the "target" swap: '62-72 B-bodies and '70-74 E-bodies. See text for caliper options and swaps for other vehicles. Mopar part numbers marked with an asterisk (*) are no longer available. The numbers are shown primarily to aid in cross-referencing to aftermarket brands and stock numbers.
this has been posted on here before but this is the entire article, a lot of reading but worth it.

this also is a master cylinder i bought, the guy that wrote the article sells this, Ben
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Hi-Po-Lightweight-Alum-Dual-Master-Cyl-Adapter_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem220377160800QQitemZ220377160800QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[John_Kunkel]

I am doing this also, this is what i found out, that article in mopar action is long bit very informative, this is part of what is says about using later stuff   ---

Do not succumb to the temptation to use "lookalike" knuckles from later Mopars, such as 73-up B/R-bodies, F/J/M bodies, etc. These parts, while visually very similar, are taller, altering suspension geometry (camber change, bump steer, etc.), and possibly forcing the ball joints beyond their designed range, a/k/a "over angling".

The opinion voiced in the MA article isn't shared by the thousands who have successfully used the tall spindle, there have never been any reported failures from the "overangling".

An alternate opinion:

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/spindles.shtml

[Mike DC]

   

Yeah, the taller spindle swap has been proven to be essentially a non-issue in the real world. 


The ball joints don't bind anywhere from bumpstop to bumpstop, and the gemetry changes are minimal & not really for the worse.  As long as you can get the car together without any interference involving the sway bar & the brake lines, you're good to go. 




Another thing about this swap:  Don't get cheap on the master cylinder. 

A disc-brake MC has more capacity than a drums-only MC.  The old drum MC will work just fine driving the car around in easy conditions, but if you have to slam on the brakes full-force then it's liable to bottom-out before it fully clamps the wheels enough.  You need a disc-brake MC with the larger reservoir for the front wheels. 



   

[Bad 69 Charger]

Why take a chance, i asked the guy that wrote the MA article and he says he has been disagreeing with that guy for 10 years, he knows about that article, if there is a way to keep the factory specs while upgrading why not, he says this triples bumpsteer when you put those spindles on. When the spindles are avaliable aftermarket why not use them, you don't want to be the first to have something fail, chances are less when using the correct stuff, i have been in the automotive alignment industry for over 20 years, suspension geometry isn't something you mess with, we get kids in here all the time that have monked with their suspension lowering their cars and they wonder why things break. I have run a car repair shop for 20 years and i have seen it all, sorry for the rant but when you can keep suspension dementions factory and the parts are being made still why do it, thanks Ben

[Mike DC]

 
I agree in general.  A kid with a fart-pipe Honda has no business screwing up the car's geometry just to get the stance & wheels looking some way that he couldn't really afford to do correctly. 




But there's nothing wrong with monkeying with susp geometry as long as you use some decent brains though. 

Heck, just using modern radial tires and a mild raked stance, it already alters the ideal alignment specs for an old Mopar.

[71charger_fan]

He couldn't possibly be more wrong about not switching the spindles side to side. That cleared up my brake hose routing problem. Using the taller spindles, mounting the calipers to the rear, and using '73 front hoses made the taller spindles an easy bolt in for my '71. It's been about 15 years with no problems. An original spindle in my cousin's Barracuda failed at five or six years old. Sometimes things just break, even in a fully factory engineered set up. We all know the factory never under-engineered anything or had to recall anything or issue any TSBs.

[John_Kunkel]

Why take a chance, i asked the guy that wrote the MA article and he says he has been disagreeing with that guy for 10 years,

Rick Ehrenberg, like everybody else, has opinions not based on fact, and the majority has been disagreeing with him for the same 10+ years. As far as bump steer goes nobody is complaining and some road racers actually prefer the tall spindles for the added camber. The only time the major geometry changes occur is if you're doing General Lee jumps.

[Mike DC]

 
To be fair Eherenberg does know a lot.  Just not everything. 


He's pretty opinionated about suspension stuff, and IMHO he's reached the point of just spatting over the principle of the thing with the spindle question.     

[Steve P.]

I agree 100% with John and Mike.   There are many thousands of converted cars out there that have never had 1 problem. I have done this myself without trouble and my 65' will have the exact same setup. I have it ready to go on now.  I am a major PITA when it comes to safety. I give this simple conversion 2 thumbs up all day long...

Also what was said about the road ralley guys is very true. Those guys use and recommend using the taller spindles.

[71charger_fan]

What's now referred to as the "Mopar Action swap" was originally published in the now defunct High Performance Mopar with no warning about taller spindles. It's been republished twice, most recently in Mopar Action. Between the original publishing and the Mopar Action release, Dulcich published an article using the later spindles. I was going to do the "Mopar Action swap," but found Dulcich's article to be better written and the parts were easier to find and cheaper to buy, so I followed that. Then Mopar Action published its now famous swap article that now contained the dire warning regarding the taller spindles. By that time, I'd already put many miles on the taller spindles and laughed it off as professional pissiness. However, it seems there is an endless parade of folks that "know" how dangerous the taller spindles are because it's in a Mopar Action article. He's a very knowledgeable Mopar tech writer, I just wish he could admit that, perhaps, he wasn't 100% right on this one issue. If I had found the A-body spindles for a good price, I would have used them because I could have done the swap and not even needed an alignment. The salvage yards near me at the time were full of F-bodies, but short on A-bodies.

[John_Kunkel]

Yep, it's all about cost and availability. In an ideal world every wrecking yard would have a couple of dozen '73-'76 A bodies with complete front ends to get the parts from but they just aren't out there due to the limited models/years.

The F,M,J,R setups were produced in much larger numbers so that's why it makes sense to use a slightly less than ideal factory setup as opposed to more expensive aftermarket alternatives.