Just got back from J&J Machine shop, I am sort of confuessed

[cudaken]

 I just dropped off some cash to J&J for the Autopsy, man he made my head hurt. I am not a total idiot but sure felt that way when I left! He was so none commital about what went wrong in the 440 he could be a politician.

Said number 4 rod was 2 tenths about of round and cap was not percfeltly square but when tighet up would be fine. Also stated after the rod was done the first time (reconductioned) that it will never be perfect again due to retorqing on the crank will be a little driffrent. OK I buy that, well to a point.

Here is the part that hurt my head, when it came to number 4 hole that had to small of piston. He told me the hole was out of round on the phone something like .0025. OK, that seems right, sloppy piston would make the hole egg shape. When I was at his shop today he said if the block was punched with a Torque Plate it could cause odd readings. My was, well so I was told.

But he checked the bores with out a plate. So are the holes really out of round or not? Said he can run a stone down the holes and make them ture again. But if number 4 is egg shaped the stone will not hit all the way around and will make a bigger egg shape?

If confuessing you makes you good, he is the best?

                                          Me

[Runner]

i may very well be wrong, but i dont see any reason why the rod cant be corrected.  they should easily be able to square the cap and rod mating surface's and then resize the the big end unless its way messed up, and in that case i wouldnt want it in my motor.

   id think that if your motor has been honed with a torque plate then it should be getting checked with one.   

  ill also say that it must be a bitch being a machinest these days with all of us arm chair machinest's chiming in on an internet message board and then that info being taken to the machinest so he can answer all the questions that several other people asked      .

   just out of curiosity where do you live?   

[firefighter3931]

Here is the part that hurt my head, when it came to number 4 hole that had to small of piston. He told me the hole was out of round on the phone something like .0025. OK, that seems right, sloppy piston would make the hole egg shape. When I was at his shop today he said if the block was punched with a Torque Plate it could cause odd readings. My was, well so I was told.

But he checked the bores with out a plate. So are the holes really out of round or not? Said he can run a stone down the holes and make them ture again. But if number 4 is egg shaped the stone will not hit all the way around and will make a bigger egg shape?

If confuessing you makes you good, he is the best?

                                                              Me

Ideally when measuring bore dimensions you want to simulate it with what the engine will see in the real world. The plate replaces the head so you get an accurate reading...this we all know.

When finish honing you want to also use a plate....another point i'm sure we all agree on. During the honing process the block will heat up and the cylinder that is being honed gets fairly warm. So, the machinist makes a pass with the hone and measures it right after and it's right where he wants it to be. Wait half an hour and it will be smaller....because as the block cools the bores shrink as the warm metal contracts. Most shops will make a single pass with the hone and call it good. The reality is that it may take several passes with the hone to get it to spec out where you want it to be. Of course this type of machining is labour intensive and to do it properly requires that the block remain on the machine for pretty much an entire day, allowing it to be honed, cool down, re-checked and honed again probably a few more times.

That was the case with mine....on the sunnen for 8hrs and multiple passes to get it right. It costs more to do it this way but the end result justifies the expenditure inmo.

Ken, i'm not exactly sure what the machinist is saying, but it should hone out round with the plates bolted onto the deck. It may take a few passes to get them perfect though, but it is certainly possible with attention to detail.

Ron

[Ghoste]

  ill also say that it must be a bitch being a machinest these days with all of us arm chair machinest's chiming in on an internet message board and then that info being taken to the machinest so he can answer all the questions that several other people asked  

Although I agree very much with what you say, I have to add that by the same token, if more machinists were truly interested in doing real high performance work for the customers who request it, then those same customers wouldn't have to go to the internet and ask questions.  Too many of these guys have done a big bunch of hot rod 350's for Camaro owners over the years and have decided that it makes them race block experts.

[doechsle]

 The 440 block has long cylinders so it will flex alot during the honing process. It is not un common to see a block not repeat itself when you take a torque plate off and put it back on. It has alot to do with the cyl. wall thickness of the particular block in question. These blocks are now 20 to 30 some odd years old with internal rusting in the water jackets. I think it will be unlikely to see many of them repeat now. The only way to make a cyl. that is .0025 out of round true is to remove at least .0025 of material.Have them check with the plate to see it it gets any better.

[cudaken]

 Hey Dennis, great to see you back. Enjoyed talking to you.

Will ask Jack more questions when I talk with him next week. Just need a Jack Palmer decoding ring.


                                    Cuda Ken