what do I need to know about a 440 HP rebuild?

[Charger72SE]

today I check all the piston rods - the rod bearing on piston #4 is toast.  Lots of slop on the crank.  all the other rods are tight & seem fine.

so, I'm back to my original question - what do I need to know about a 440 rebuild?

My SE is a numbers matching car so I want to keep it near stock and kick up the HP a bit.  It's a driver so I won't be racing it.

I'm looking for suggestions on
- what pistons, cam, etc should I use
- should I keep the piston rods if they aren't bent
- I was going to add a high volume oil pump for insurance
- should I buy the parts or let the rebuilder buy them?
- what price range is a rebuild?

I talked to a shop yesterday, and he said to plan on replacing the crankshaft because it is probably bent.   I thought the steel forged crank in the 440 HP is pretty tough.  He quoted me $2500-$3000 - is that reasonable?

[SeattleCharger]

I got quoted 3500 for my 440 in Kirkland, Washington, balanced.

[Charger72SE]

SeattleChargerDog - what parts did that include? cam, all bearings, pistons, crank?

[SeattleCharger]

Not sure about the crank, I think mine is ok, but everything else.  New everything.

[SeattleCharger]

   What is the story on "Spyder" or "Jasper" kit/crate engines?   Some guy was telling me about them but it sounded too good to be true, first he was talking about spyder, then he said he made a mistake and meant jasper, and was saying the a rebuilt balance complete 440 could be bought by a mechanic with a mechanic discount for a really low price, think he said six or seven hundred bucks, anyways, I never heard of this, sounds too good to be true

[Charger72SE]

well after spending some time pulling the engine and taking a look inside, my problem is a spun bearing on #4 piston rod.  It really did a job on the crankshaft - see picture of rod journal where #3 and #4 piston rods were on the crank and picture of main cap #3.  I put a piece of white paper behind the crank so the damage would show up more clearly.

fortunately, everything else seems in good shape - the piston rod seems ok, all the cylinders were smooth with no ruts or gouges, the rest of the piston rods were solid on the crank, the crank under the main caps on either side of #4 piston rod had no blue or black color and bearings were intact.

I found a guy for the rebuild who has done good engine work for other Charger owners around Milwaukee.  He's a one man shop but spent an hour with me in 2 get togethers and I guess I trust him.

I was going to get the most all the parts from 440 Source - they have quality stuff (Klevite bearings, Melling high volumr oil pump, Ross pistons, Childs & Alberts rings and new cranks if needed (probably)

so my question is what should I do to increase the HP a bit.  My 72 is a driver (no racing) and since it's numbers matching, I want to keep it stock.  The compression is 8.2:1 and rated at 290 hp.  Do domed pistons makes sense?  Can a cam add some hp?  I only want to replace what is needed and not replace all the internals.

let mer know what you think on increasing hp

thanks!!

[cudaken]

 OK, what do you mean by a little more HP? Last time I answer this kind of question I posted all the part number to up grade a 383 2 barrrel to a little over stock 383 HP. Then I was ran over by all the other answers on how to make 425 HP.

If you are looking for around 30 HP this answer will do it. Want 130 HP more it wont.

Speed Pro Pistons L2355F 440 6 pack pistons, with steel head gaskets right at 10 to 1

MP intake part number P4529118 when painted will pass for stock and worth about 5 to 10 Hp I think a 72 still had a square bore carb and not a thermaquad. If Thermaquad you would need a adapter

MAKE SURE THE 440 IS CHECKED FOR BLUE PRINTED DECK HEIGHT!!!! That effect everything from valve lift, compression ratio and port alignment. Maw Mopar was awful about this. If your was off badly like most B-engines are it alone could give you 10 to 40 HP.

Have your head's and intake matched ported as well.

The above will wake your 440 up, but still drive and idle like a stocker. Engine will be stronger Idle all the way to stock shift point.

Have the distributor checked out and have a fast advanves kit installed. Want total advances to be 38 degress at 2000 RPM's.

                            Cuda Ken

[Charger72SE]

thanks Cuda Ken,

yep, this is what I'm looking for - wake her up a bit, keep the stock look, and still burn pump gas

any suggestions for the cam?

Paul

[cudaken]

 Paul, if all you are looking for is around 30 HP the stock HP cam is fine. It is a good all round cam for a stock HP Big Block. Fresh one would not be a bad idea. If you want more HP or driffrent cam I need details on your Charger. I know it has a 727, saw the felx plate but gears is something I would need to know about as well.

Cheap seat of the paint's HP feel is a 74 400 Police converter, has a stall of around 2400 RPM's and I have one in my 69 Charger. Made the car feel 500 pounds lighter. With yours being a 72 it should be a cast crank, but I have seen steel crank 72's as well. Some with 440-6 pack rods yet. If your's is steel you will need to knock off the counter weight used for the cast crank 400. If your is cast it is a bolt in.

What ever you do, make sure the DECK HEIGHT IS BLUE PRINTED. Big reason Big Block's can be easy road kill.

                                 Cuda Ken

[cudaken]

 Another Cheap HP trick is windage tray P4120998 worth 5 HP at 5000 RPM's if you dont have one all ready. Never opened up a stock 72 440 Hp engine.

74 AC water pump, has small vains and worth 5 HP as well at 5000 RPM's.

Have a clutch fan? If not another free 5 HP.

Have them check the ware on your stock cam. Come to think of it, is your 440 a HP 440? If it is have them check the cam for ware. If it is still good reuse it for now. You did say you want to reuse as much as you could right?

With the pistons I listed you can get wilder later with a hotter cam.

Little free stuff add's up and get better MPG as well. Free means it will not use more gas not the cost for the part.

                                 Cuda Ken

[Charger72SE]

yep, I have a 440 HP engine, so it does have the forged crank, but I think it's toast anyway (see pic)

the full drive train is 440 HP, 727 slap stick auto and 8 3/4 rear end with 3.23 gears.  I do have a windage tray and I think clutch fan.

I was going to replace the cam and lifters as long as the engine is apart.

what is the deck height suppose to be?  he is going to mill the bottoms of the cylinder head and top of the block.

thanks much!

[cudaken]

 Sorry Paul I dodn't know what the speck is off the top of my head. Your shop should have it. It is the distances from the bottom of the bore to the top of it. Most deck are taller than what the should be, some the deck's form left to right will not be the same. If the block is only .010 taller than they should be that will take .0150 of the valve lift (Rocker's are 1.5 ratio) that would take a 484 valve fit down to 469 lift. I have seen them as high as .025.

It will also lower the compression as well.

Make sure he understands you want the deck height Blue Printed not just straight.

If you want a hotter cam where do you want the power, bottom end, or top end?

                          Cuda Ken

[Chryco Psycho]

I use Engle Hyd cams , they are great ot deal with & the cams work !!

[cudaken]

 Hey Neil great to see you on line again I was having fun doing your job.

Paul, listen to Neil, he still teaches me. I have never ran the Engle cams. I do know that split duration helps bottom and mide range. That is why the 440 HP is ground that way.

Like I said, looking for 30 HP what I have listed will do it and them some.


                        Cuda Ken

[Charger72SE]

yep, Chryco has helped me a lot over the last 2+ years - I'll check out the Engle cams

my rebuilder said he would have the 440 dismantled by tomorrow & to give him a call - we'll see what is all needed to be done!

[Charger72SE]

well, it's been a long month, but my 440 should be done this Friday!

it ends up that the crank was trashed from the spun piston rod bearing and if I wouldn't have shut her down when I did, a couple main bearings would have gone as well.

the rebuild will have a new stock 3.75" crank, Clevite bearings all around, timing chain, water pump, high volume oil pump & some misc parts from 440source
Melling 448/472 cam and lifters
SpeedPro 2355F 30 over pistons & moly rings and Mopar Performance SS valves

compression will go from 8.2 to 9.4
the guy doing my engine confirmed that the mileage was 48K and not 148K
rebuilder says this will be a strong street car following my request to keep the numbers matching Charger "stock but stout"

here are some pics of the block after the boiling & dip and 30 over boring

I'll post more pics when it is done

[Chryco Psycho]

Awesome !!
be careful using a high Volume oil pump with a stock pan , 440 s do not have oiling problems , a high pressure stock volume pump would be my choice

[SeattleCharger]

  Is that compression still good for pump gas?   Could you say maybe how much horsepower that might make with the .30 over and that cam?  What carb and intake are you going to use?   I am still trying to figure how I am going to do my 440.  Will be bored .30 over also. 
Thanks,
Nate

[Charger72SE]

Hi Neal - everyone I talked to told me to go with the high volume oil pump vs the high pressure one.   The 72 440 HP came with a 7 qt capacity, baffled oil pan, so it should keep up with the high volume oil pump

SeattleChargerDog - Neal knows better than me, but I think you can go with pump gas to 10 compression.    I'm using the original intake manifold and Holley 4160 4 bbl carb that was rebuilt 2 years ago.

I have no idea on the horse power, maybe someone can take a guess at it.

[Charger72SE]

here's a few pics of the balancing & cylinder honing - he said the job should be done this week

after reding the horro story from cudaken, is there anything I should be looking out for?  the good news is I can come to the shop any time and see how things are going

[firefighter3931]

after reding the horro story from cudaken, is there anything I should be looking out for?  

Ask for a spec sheet on the bearing clearances (main/rod), ring end gaps, crank runout and the piston to cylinder wall clearances. This will at least guarantee that those things have been checked and verified by the assembler.  

Ron

[cudaken]

 

That is one of the mistakes I made, I trusted the shops that did mine. $7,000.00 and 90 miles later 440 is hanging on the stand again.


                                    Ken