Exxon might finally have to pay

[bull]

I have to wonder how much of our money has gone toward the legal fight with these little towns over the past 19 years?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23338979/

19 years later, Exxon oil spill before high court
Residents of one Alaskan town want legal retribution for disaster

CORDOVA, Alaska - For many in this coastal town, it is known simply as the Oil Spill, an event so crushing that hard-bitten fishermen still get teary-eyed recalling ruined livelihoods, broken marriages and suicides.

But mostly, people in Cordova talk about the numbing wait for legal retribution for the worst oil spill in U.S. history.

It's been almost 19 years since the tanker Exxon Valdez ran aground at Alaska's Bligh Reef, spurting 11 million gallons of crude into the rich fishing waters of Prince William Sound. In 1994, an Anchorage jury awarded victims $5 billion in punitive damages. That amount has since been cut in half by other courts on appeals by Exxon Mobil Corp.

Now the town of 2,200 looks anxiously to the U.S. Supreme Court, which will hear arguments Wednesday from Exxon on why the company should not have to pay punitive damages at all.

Scores of Cordova residents are among almost 33,000 plaintiffs — including commercial fishermen, Alaska Natives, landowners, businesses and local governments — who could see the $2.5 billion judgment taken away by the high court.

"With this legal system the way it has been protracted out, people can't put it behind them," said Cordova Mayor Tim Joyce. "The final recompense has never been made."

Steve Smith, a 69-year-old Cordova fisherman, worries that big business will prevail.

"I really wonder, what do you do if you don't get a just decision out of the Supreme Court," he said on his boat Prince William. "I mean, there's no other court to take it to. What do you got left, really? Anarchy?"

more...

[hemihead]

Out of $2.5 billion , 40% off the top to the lawyers, then taxes . And in the end we all pay at the pumps .

[bull]

Out of $2.5 billion , 40% off the top to the lawyers, then taxes . And in the end we all pay at the pumps .

We've already been paying. If Exxon would have settled right away instead of stonewalling for damn near two decades they would have already been done with it. Now they're going to have to pay what they would have had to pay anyway in addition to the 19 years worth of legal fees they've already blown.

[Mike DC]

I agree with Bull.

There was no way on earth that Exxon wasn't gonna be found 100% liable for that incident in any unbiased courtroom.  They just fought against the suit for purely finiancial reasons, to the ultimate detriment of society.   There was no respectable reason for them to contest their guilt. 

[moparjohn]

That town should have received the total sum within the first year of the spill. THIS is exactly whats wrong with the world, take responsibility and pay for the damaged you created. Exxon, having enogh money to pay it, is shamefull.JMO

[694spdRT]

Here is the rather lengthy timeline of events for those interested.

http://www.faegre.com/articles/article_751.aspx

[twenty mike mike]

The title of this thread is very misleading. Now that everyone has their knickers in a bunch, Exxon has already paid. They've paid the compensatory damages, which covers the clean up costs and loss of work/income caused by the spill.

Exxon was found 100% liable, as they should have been, and they have paid up.

At issue is the punitive damage award, which generally is a huge sum meant to punish a person or corporation for bad behavior, theoretically to ensure they'll be more careful in the future. Notice the article says nothing about the amount and status of the compensatory damages Exxon had to pay.

Say you run into someone's car and you get sued for damage to the car and for some medical expenses. You pay up and the case is closed, right? No, not necessarily. The lawyer from the other side decides (with dollar signs in his eyes) that you need to be punished for your misdeed, because he claims you were so careless you need to be taught an expensive lesson. In reality, it's because you have money. The sympathetic jury awards the person you hit a million dollars. That must be fair, since everyone who has commented so far thinks Exxon should pay up. Remember, the compensatory damages have been paid, so this is icing (so to speak) on the cake for the lawyers and everyone who lived or worked near Prince William Sound and probably a bunch who'd never heard of it before the spill. 33,000 people in the lawsuit...that 2.5 billion will go a long way, even after the lawyers' fees.

So maybe Exxon does deserve to be punished above and beyond environmental cleanup and direct compensation. However, if you were faced with the million dollar judgement example above, wouldn't you fight it? How much more money does a fisherman who made $20,000 (just as an example) the year before "deserve" after he's already been compensated for the loss of his income? After all, he got paid and he didn't even have to go out in that bad weather and dangerous water.

I'm no fan of Exxon, but I am a fan of fairness, and I'm an opponent of slimy lawyers using corporations as blank checks.

That was a great piece of propaganda...my high school journalism teacher would never have let us print it.

[bull]

Nice candy coating but it's a lot of BS. We're talking about ruining the livelihood of thousands of people up there, including fishermen. It's one thing to put a dent in a delivery man's car, it's quite another to smash it to pieces and then prevent him from buying another car for the next 20 years.

[69CoronetRT]

The title of this thread is very misleading. Now that everyone has their knickers in a bunch, Exxon has already paid. They've paid the compensatory damages,

<snip>

That was a great piece of propaganda...my high school journalism teacher would never have let us print it.

Nice post. 

[Mike DC]

I agree about punitive damages being sometimes excessive.  In theory.

In the real-world case that we're talking about here, there is no way the original raw compensatory damages even began to balance the scales.

[Silver R/T]

They screwed up big and should pay big. Their tanker driver was drunk when he was driving tanker and they were aware of it. they should pay out trillions and not bitch about it. They rape people at the pumps, they can afford to give out a few billions more

[Silver R/T]

I am angry when I have to pay over $3.00 a gallon and they dont wanna pay up for their mistakes.

p.s. did you get a Lightning?

[Silver R/T]

Ya i get decent mileage with my car but you didnt consider about other costs involved with high oil prices (groceries, auto parts, and pretty much everything else because it ALL gets delivered on semi trucks that use gas) You see my point now? Besides theres additional tax on gas that goes to help fix local roads. Roads have not been touched for a while and everyone busts a tire or bends a control arm when driving around Spokane WA. I almost lost my wheel the other day going to work in the morning. You cant see potholes in the dark/rainy morning, even when you do you only have two choices. Go around it and possibly wreck into car next to you or just go over it and possibly damage your suspension.

I was just wondering if they are 4x4 or not (lightnings) I dont think they are but just making sure/

[twenty mike mike]

I agree about punitive damages being sometimes excessive.  In theory.

In the real-world case that we're talking about here, there is no way the original raw compensatory damages even began to balance the scales.

Really? How much was the compensatory award and how much was the shortfall?

[twenty mike mike]

  Here's some basic tort law reading for you guys.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Compensatory_damages

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Punitive_damages

http://www.compensatory.org/

Note the list of wrongs that compensatory damages redress.

If you feel that Exxon should be punished on top of that, fine. Just base your decision on knowledge, rather than on some hysterical, slanted "news" article.

[tkkruzer]

the fact is exxon will probably not pay a dime for what they did, but they will increase prices to pay for the settlement anyways. no matter what the courts finally decide,most of us will never see the payout be distributedto anybody. if it took them 20 yrs to get to this point it'll probably take another 20 to settle. by that time most of the plaintiffs will probably be dead. anyways I drive for a living, and i'm paying about 300 $ or so a week. when my cost go up so do my prices, and so does the cost of the items I deliver. this crap is getiing to the point that i'm ready to cash it in and find some other type of business,,, sorry to vent , we need to have a party to make everybody happy for a while    what do you guys think?  Tom

[bull]

  Here's some basic tort law reading for you guys.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Compensatory_damages

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Punitive_damages

http://www.compensatory.org/

Note the list of wrongs that compensatory damages redress.

If you feel that Exxon should be punished on top of that, fine. Just base your decision on knowledge, rather than on some hysterical, slanted "news" article.

You should send these links to the Justices of the US Supreme Court as a preemptive strike in case they decide to do the opposite of what you think they should.

[Troy]

Um, yeah. Here's another useless thread that will cause all sorts of arguments and, in the end, no one will change their opinion one tiny bit.

Random thoughts:
Exxon could write a check tomorrow (they have like $30 billion in cash). People will still be unhappy.
They should have insurance to cover things like this so it's unlikely that the balance sheet will be affected.
Exxon had $116 Billion in sales last quarter so, again, not a significant impact even if they did have to pay out of pocket.
Chavez has more to do with oil/gas prices than the settlement from the Valdez.
Exxon doesn't control the world's gas prices. Nor does the President. Basic economics. Try using less (or build a refinery).
Class action lawsuits and ridiculous punitive awards only make lawyers rich - everyone else gets burned.

Troy

[69_500]

Isn't this like most of the threads that get posted in Off Topic? Everyone spills their sides of the story 10 times over, and eventually someone just gets upset and storms off for a week?

My view on it is this.

They need to correct a wrong they did many years ago. Now did they hold up their end of the bargain with the settlement that was already paid? To me somewhat. Should they still have to pay for some punitive damages? Possibly. Then again there are a lot of people who pay for lesser damages every day. In stupid civil cases that tend to tie up the legal system with a bunch of useless lawsuits because we as a society are sue crazy.

[Silver R/T]

They are 2wd only. No 4x4 Lightnings were built from factory. Sounds like Spokane roads are like ours here in Alaska. We're moving there also next year or so also. I know, I didn't include all of the above like you did. I'm not going to get excited about anything here,just agree and move on. Complain about the price we all have to pay, nah, I'll just keep on keepin' on.
I plan to get a 4x4 truck of some kind after we move there though for my winter driver also.

Mark

Ya I thought they would be only 2wd or I might've got me one of those. With our winters I need 4x4. Have you done any mods to it yet?

[justin1987]

Um, yeah. Here's another useless thread that will cause all sorts of arguments and, in the end, no one will change their opinion one tiny bit.

Random thoughts:
Exxon could write a check tomorrow (they have like $30 billion in cash). People will still be unhappy.
They should have insurance to cover things like this so it's unlikely that the balance sheet will be affected.
Exxon had $116 Billion in sales last quarter so, again, not a significant impact even if they did have to pay out of pocket.
Chavez has more to do with oil/gas prices than the settlement from the Valdez.
Exxon doesn't control the world's gas prices. Nor does the President. Basic economics. Try using less (or build a refinery).
Class action lawsuits and ridiculous punitive awards only make lawyers rich - everyone else gets burned.

Troy

You hit the nail right on the head Troy.

[bull]

Um, yeah. Here's another useless thread that will cause all sorts of arguments and, in the end, no one will change their opinion one tiny bit.

Random thoughts:
Exxon could write a check tomorrow (they have like $30 billion in cash). People will still be unhappy.
They should have insurance to cover things like this so it's unlikely that the balance sheet will be affected.
Exxon had $116 Billion in sales last quarter so, again, not a significant impact even if they did have to pay out of pocket.
Chavez has more to do with oil/gas prices than the settlement from the Valdez.
Exxon doesn't control the world's gas prices. Nor does the President. Basic economics. Try using less (or build a refinery).
Class action lawsuits and ridiculous punitive awards only make lawyers rich - everyone else gets burned.

Troy

You hit the nail right on the head Troy.

The only thing more trite around here than a "useless thread that will cause all sorts of arguments" is the obligatory smooch on the administrator's keister after he makes a point.

[justin1987]

The only thing more trite around here than a "useless thread that will cause all sorts of arguments" is the obligatory smooch on the administrator's keister after he makes a point.