True towing ratings for 1500 and 2500...

[Afflyer]

Fellers-

Later this year, I'm going to upgrade my daily driver, from the '96 1500 Quad Cab, to either an '06 or '07 used 1500 or 2500 Quad Cab (preferably the Mega cab- but $ is the issue).  I'm not in the market, per se, of a brand new Ram, as I don't think I need a brand new Ram at all.  These trucks are built so good that I don't feel the need for shelling out tons of money on a brand new one, only to have it depreciate dramatically as soon as I drive her off the lot.

No- so I'm looking at getting an excellent used '06 or '07.  Now my question is this; what can I tow if I get a 1500?  We will eventually get a descent sized pull out camper, not much less than 24' long, in a few years to take on family vacations.  I want to know if I should just get a 2500 series or can I stick with what I've had for the past eleven years; a 1500 series Ram?

I don't necessarily want a diesel, as I'm leaning towards the Hemi, but paying for the minimum rating of 89 octane for the Hemi is beginning to make me rethink the diesel issue.

What are your thoughts on this matter gents?  Tell me what your preferences are and your experiences with the '06 and '07 Ram towing availabilities are, and if I should go with the 89 octane Hemi, or the diesel?

What is the going rate for a used '06 2WD Quad Cab, with all of the fixins?  Is it possible to get what I'm looking for, and not pay more than $23K?

Thanks fellas, this should be a great posting.

Bradley

[Todd Wilson]

After pulling with 3 different trucks I will never ever ever buy another halfton truck.  If you think you may pull a trailer a few times a year then you can probably get by with the Hemi. The diesel would be the better way to go. Longevity of the engine and the MPG will pay for itself if you plan to keep it a while and use it.  The suspension and brakes on the 3/4 ton will make the most difference over the half ton.  You get a 24 foot camper on it and 4 people in the 4 door cab along with gear and the halfton will be floating all over the road and you want to be in control and have enough truck to back it up if something bad happens. 4 people alone will weight in at 700-800 lbs. Not to mention luggage and other things you are taking. Add the 24 foot camper to it and it will be loaded with gear and stuff  you can end up with a lot of weight fast. Control and stopping is the important part of pulling. Most of the v8 motors out there will pull the weight. The diesel will do it better and longer with better MPG. This is why I laugh when I see Toyota's commercial bragging about how it pulled some much weight 0-60mph faster then all the others. This is sending the wrong message about pulling. But there will be people out there that stick their foot to the floor all the time and then cry when stuff starts blowing up on them.


As for true tow ratings   Dodge's web site will tell you

Halfton  Base Curb weight is 4900lbs to 5260lbs   add to it options (auto or manual tranny,4x4,fancy interiors) and gasoline it can wiegh more.  Its maximum GVWR is 6700 lbs.  When the truck gets to be over 6700lbs its over weight.

Looking I see the GCWR Maximum  is 14000lbs. This is the truck and trailer loaded,people in it,gas in it going down the road weight.

2500 3/4 ton  shows a 20000lb GCWR with a diesel   and 17000lbs with a hemi

Truck weights show a GVWR of 8800lbs to 9000lbs depending on options

Your curb wieghts go up as well with a 3/4 ton. Trucks weigh in about 1500lbs more then a halfton.  You will get heavier brakes,better load rated tires  and a full floating axle so you wont have to worry about loosing a rear wheel and axle if something breaks due to the weight along with suspensions made for weight. This right here is the important part! Control!!!!!


Todd

[69charger2002]

well bradley here is my opinion. i have had an 03 04 05 and now an 07 ram quad cab 1500.. 3 with hemi, one with the 4.7(this motor BLOWS!!!). i have used 87 octane in all 4 never a problem. each of these trucks weigh 6600 lbs, curb weight. they are a decent sized rig.. i have towed each of them pulling R/T chargers..with trailer.. approx 5500 lbs.. and also a 30' travel trailer consistently that weighed about 6000 lbs. never an issue, truck sits nice and level, and it has plenty of get up and go without feeling like you're "killing" the truck. i looked at a 2500 this year when buying my 07. but they were $35000 for 2wd.. if you want a $23k and under truck, you can get a NEW quad cab 2wd hemi for that. i just bought my latest one 3 months ago with 3 miles on it.. for $22,600. it is loaded, hemi, trailer tow group, 3.92 sure grip, 20" chrome wheel package, etc etc. it is a great truck. don't buy a 06 or 07 used with 20-30k miles on it. the price used dealers ask for those is not worth it. a 07 1500 has such great rebates lately that it just makes sense to buy a NEW one. normally you couldn't pay me to get new vehicles. but they come SO far off sticker on these new ones lately. that you can't help it. i think i paid less for my loaded 07 than i paid for my 05 2 years ago
good luck at least look at the new ones first before you buy used.  the note todd said about diesels lasting longer and 2500's having better suspension are very true, even the MPG is about 5 better pulling with a diesel. but then again you PAY FOR IT.. up front out of pocket. those 1500's can pull their ass off and stop on a dime. the best thing is to me after owning a few older chevies and staring at the sky while pulling.. is how LEVEL the trucks sit with a load on them. towing a charger you almost forget it's back there.. seriously.. if you're budget is 23k, get a new QC 2007 1500 with a hemi. or settle for a 2500 QC diesel with 100k miles on it already. probably ragged out from pulling.. IF you do go the latter route, try and find one that doesn't have a 5th wheel or gooseneck previously installed. your chances will be a little better of it lasting longer.
trav

below is a pic of it with 6000 lbs on it's back

[Afflyer]

Thanks Todd and Trav- now I'm REALLY torn as to what to buy! 

I exceeded the towing capacity of my '96 Ram 1500 when we moved from Little Rock to the Florida panhandle.  Of course, I did it to myself, after towing the Charger on the autohauler, loading up the Charger with some things and having the John Deere 116H tractor sitting in the bed of the truck, along with other smaller things.  All told, I probably overloaded the truck that day by a few thousand pounds.  I paid for it going through the tunnel in Mobile, Alabama- 'bout burned out the manual tranny.  Ever since then, the tranny makes noise in all gears.  I had it inspected at the local Dodge dealer, and they told me that it would cost the same amount to replace the tranny, as it would to replace the "scorched" gears, so just let it ride till she fails.

Trav, you said you run 87 octane in your Hemi?  My dad runs no less than 89 octane in his Hemi Magnum, 'cause he said the owners manual stated it and the dealer backed it up.  Does your Hemi have any issues with using 87 instead of 89 octane?  I've never owned a Cummins and I know the maintenance costs are considerably higher, over a gas engine.  I'm looking at getting the most mileage I can get, and I know the Cummins can give high marks in this category, over a Hemi.

Keep the information flowing guys, I need all the knowledge I can get, as it's been since '96 since I've bought a new truck.

New or used?  Hemi or Cummins?  1500 or 2500? 

Disicisions Disicions Disicions 

Bradley

[ramit]

I have an 03 ram with a hemi and always run 87 octane with no problems.  In fact, I didn't even realize I was supposed to be running a minimum of 89 octane.

[69charger2002]

i have always run 87 in mine.. i didn't know until my 3rd truck that 89 was "required". now don't get me wrong. i'm no cheapskate. i run ONLY 93 in all my old chargers.. but these new ones are designed for 87.. i wouldn't worry about it. oh and that mobile tunnel. yeah that's quite a climb coming out the other side loaded. every year the mopar show at the battleship i drive my chargers through the tunnel and coming up i punch it, with the exhaust it makes the tunnel sound INCREDIBLE. people look around when i pass them like the walls of the tunnel are gonna fall in or something. we all joke about it as we ride through
trav

[Old Moparz]

I was looking at used trucks for the same depreciation & price reasons when I found mine. It's an '04 Ram 1500, 4x4 Quad Cab SLT, automatic 5 speed with a 5.7 Hemi, 3.92 rear, & an 8 foot bed. I bought this brand new but it was a leftover in August of '05 with 20 miles on the odometer. It has the factory tow package, & rated to tow a maximum of 8400 pounds. I verified this before buying it, because I have a 7000 (gross) pound car trailer, & a 24 foot travel trailer for camping that weighs 4250 pounds empty, & 6010 loaded.

The 5.7 Hemi has no trouble pulling the loaded trailers & rides nice, but I will admit it's a pig on gas, towing or not. It's supposed to get 17 highway, but that's a generous number & I get less. I knew that before buying it, but for the amount of times I tow, & with the weights I pull not being really heavy, I couldn't justify a diesel. I also knew I'd never get trailers any bigger, so that wasn't an issue. I don't drive it daily, I still drive my '95 Ford F150 most days to work, but that has a 5.8 & not any better on gas. I am close to work, 3-1/2 miles, so I don't commute. If you drive long distance, the diesel should do better on MPG.

You said a price of $23,000 is your limit. I paid $23,065 for this truck, & the sticker with all the options it had, was listed at $36,560. This thing was cheaper than a $25,000 used truck I was looking at with 30,000 miles on it. If you're not in a rush & don't care what color, or some options it has, a leftover could be a good deal for you. I still have very low mileage, it just turned over at 14,000 miles last month, but it's been very reliable except for stalling last year. It turns out the computer needed to be "flashed" at the dealer, & it's been fine since.

One last thing to consider, is that you said this truck will be your daily driver. I don't know what everyone considers to be a smooth ride, but a 2500 will ride very stiff & bouncy when empty compared to a 1500. My neighbor bought a 1500 quad cab Hemi also, but he test drove a 2500 & said there was no way he wanted to drive it every day. If I had heavier trailers, I'd have went with one bigger than a 1500, but I know I don't need it & won't go larger on the trailers. I don't have the room for them anyway.

Here's a photo of mine pulling the 24 foot travel trailer. I've since added a matching fiberglass cap, stainless step bars, & my "MOPARZ" license plate. 

[Lurker]

i run the wheels off my trucks, i used to buy 1/2 ton gas jobs and i bought 1 2500 gas job and trade them in every 2 ears with around 100,000 hard miles on them.. they were DONE lol in the fall of 2001 i bought a 2500 cummins, i still have it and have no plans of getting rid of it. i change brakes and oil and it just keeps going, i would never buy another truck without a deisel. the initial invesment is a little more for the deisel but the if you use your truck like i do its well worth it.

[Todd Wilson]

i have always run 87 in mine.. i didn't know until my 3rd truck that 89 was "required". now don't get me wrong. i'm no cheapskate. i run ONLY 93 in all my old chargers.. but these new ones are designed for 87.. i wouldn't worry about it.

Not all new engines are designed for 87. If it sez min. of 89   then running anything lower will make the computer try and retard timing which will reduce power to stop a ping thats going on. If that continues you will have engine problems.



Todd

[Afflyer]

Thanks fellers for chiming in on this thread.  Like I mentioned before- considering the Hemi requires 89 octane, which runs about the same in price per gallon as ultra-clean diesel, I've been leaning towards getting a Cummins.  Not to mention the fact that since '05, the Cummins runs soooooooo much quieter now (I like that fact a LOT).  I think the Cummins gets more MPG than a Hemi anyway.  I've never had a diesel before, so I have no idea what the maintenance costs would be each year, such as oil and filter changes, etc..  That obviously concerns me.  And with the Cummins, I'd have all that power whenever I needed it, with plenty in reserve for towing a camper, or my Charger.

Hell- come to think of it- you see ten times as many diesels on the autobahn in Germany in VW's, Audi's, and Mercedes Benz cars, than you do ordinary petrol cars!

The only reason I thought about having the Hemi, is first off; the price of gas vs. diesel, and secondly; I've always ran gasoline engines all my life.  I like that fuel saving MDS on the Hemi, but how many MPG do you truely gain?  My commute will drastically change in six months, from driving 80 miles round trip, to and from the base here in Florida, to-at best- maybe 10 miles round trip, when we move to New Mexico, after the first of next year. 

I think I'm really leaning towards getting a Cummins.  I'll have the truck as long as I've had this one, which has been eleven years so far.  I'm sure a Cummins can handle that many years of use.  Hell, this 318 of mine has been STOUT all this time!

Now the question remains- half ton or three-quarter ton?  You guys mentioned the ride "feel" of a 1500 over a 2500, in that the 1500 has a softer ride compared to the tougher ride of a 2500.  I'd be willing to bet that over the years, the ride in the 2500 would become as soft as one in a 1500.  Case in point, my '96 1500 when it was brand new, had a real stiff suspension.  All new trucks do.  Over the years, my good old '96 has become much more softer traveling over the road, than when I first pulled her out of storage from my grandmother's garage (awaiting my homecoming from the Azores).

Am I wrong to think the ride of a 2500 over the years will be any different than what I've experienced over eleven years in my 1500?

Bradley

[Troy]

If you choose the Cummins you can rule out a 1500 so that makes your choice easier. Although, there was a thread a while back about a diesel option for the 1500 but I'm not sure what ever became of that idea. Diesel maintenance is higher than a gas engine. For example, mine takes 11 quarts of oil and the fuel separator/filter is $28 and needs changed every couple of oil changes. The new diesels have a longer recommended interval between changes though (15k miles?). The new Cummins has an overhaul rating around 350,000 miles so you shouldn't need a rebuild for about 40 years with a commute of 10 miles. If you were driving 80 miles each way I'd almost recommend the Cummins but once you move it won't be necessary and you're not pulling enough to need the power. The diesel will almost double the mileage of the Hemi if you drive it like you're supposed to. I haven't ridden in a new 2500 but the 1500s that I've been in have ridden pretty well (compared to my 1 ton dually they are smooth).

The Europeans drive diesels because their gas prices are so high and diesel is cheaper with better mileage. We don't worry about that here with our cheap gas.

Troy

[Afflyer]

Thanks Troy!  BTW- check your mailbox early next week! 

Bradley

[Afflyer]

"The diesel will almost double the mileage of the Hemi if you drive it like you're supposed to."


Troy, what exactly do you mean by that, and do you really go fifteen thousand miles between oil changes?

Bradley

[pettyfan43]

My 04 Hemi Quad Cab gets an AVERAGE (in town and highway) of 17.5-18, Drops to 16.5 is I drive in town a LOT.

It has the anti spin (Sure Grip) and 3.55 gears, the towing package which ups the tires one size. I've put 22 thousand miles on it since August 10 06. I gave right at 20 even and it looks new. Drives like a new one as well.

Fuel saving MDS? What is it worth? A SMOOTH 1 MPG! mine DOES not have it.  If you do a LOT of towing you will spend less in gas, the Cummins trucks are GREAT! They ride ROUGH and even with a LOT of miles they don't get softer UNLESS you haul a LOT of heavy stuff! The trucks have HUGE brakes on them as well. I've loaded a BUNCH of stuff in my truck and pulled a 66 Charger parts car home with mine, never knew it was loaded in either case.

[Troy]

"The diesel will almost double the mileage of the Hemi if you drive it like you're supposed to."


Troy, what exactly do you mean by that, and do you really go fifteen thousand miles between oil changes?

Bradley

Loosely based on polls on the truck sites...
Hemi = 13-15 mpg
Cummins = 18-23 mpg
I get around 20 mpg with a dually 4x4 automatic quad cab which is about the worst combination you could ask for (tall and heavy with a lot of moving parts). Some guys are reporting 24-25 but most all of them have 6-speed manuals and a lot are 2WD. The lowest I've ever recorded was 17 but I was also trying to see if a stock dually could spin all four rear tires (I can do Dukes' style drifts in a light rain). I haven't really heard of anyone doing much better than 15 or 16 with a Hemi and certainly not in a quad cab 4x4 auto. The difference is even more pronounced when towing because a gas engine may drop to 6-8 but I barely lose 1 mpg pulling the Barracuda (and I don't baby it either). Oh yeah, "winter blend" diesel (if you live in colder climates) can wreak havoc on your mileage.

Obviously, driving style has a great impact so a guy who takes off gently and drives reasonable speeds could do very well but someone with their foot always stuck to the floor will do poorly in the same truck. I can increase mileage in any of my cars by taking the back roads to work instead of the highway since I have to run 70+ just to keep up with traffic. The newer Hemis with the cylinder cut-off feature may do better but I haven't read much about them. My roommate's dad had 3.54 gears in his 360 powered 2500 and did pretty well but towing a car it dropped to about 9 and had no grunt off the line at all. You can't (shouldn't) really mash the throttle in a diesel. The best way to drive one is to watch the exhaust (if you have a pyrometer) and transmission temps to make sure you aren't heating things up too much. I read that my engine has a "sweet spot" around 1,700 rpm so I try to keep it around there. Power really drops off under that and it causes the engine to lug and the trans to "hunt" for a gear.

My 1999 diesel has an oil change interval of 7500 miles but I change it with fewer than 5,000 miles because it sits a lot. I'm sure that I've read plenty on how fast oil gets dirty but I feel that it's mostly a personal preference thing. I was just saying that the new diesels are rated for a much longer interval and whether the owner follows that recommendation is really up to them.

Troy

[pettyfan43]

Troy makes one HUGE point about the diesels, virtually NO loss of mileage when towing. A buddy of mine has an older 2wd 3500 standard cab. He told me that it gets 20 whether he is driving the truck by itself or towing his enclosed trailer with one or two cars in it. 

The newer bigger diesel is a bit thirstier but they still do really well compared to a gas burner.

[gnrl01]

Here is a nice truck for ya in your price range, this is almost just like mine except mine has the hood scoop,sunroof and nerf bars. Looks like he just wants out. 

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/car/356213641.html