ARGH! Clatter & oil pressure loss!

[defiance]

YET ANOTHER pop-up-problem... feel like I'm playing freakin' whack-a-mole with this car.

So tonight I'm testing my oil pan that I just fixed.  Cleaned it all up, tightened the plug, put oil in, set an old white sheet underneath the car so I'd see if it leaked... waited an hour... no leaks!  Yeah!

So I started the next phase, which is getting the pressures right on my a/c.  Couple minutes into that, engine starts clacking.  Thought since I was working on the a/c, maybe it was the a/c compressor, turned it off... clattering just kept getting louder.  Then I noticed oil pressure guage bottomed out.  CRAP!  Shut it down, checked the oil...  No, it's full...  WTF??

So at this point I call my dad, he says it's the oil pump or shaft.  Ok, fine, I'm prepping to order a high-volume pump and shaft just to be sure.

Here's the thing, though...  Is there something I could have done to make this thing die?  Once again, from my dad, he says they very rarely die...  And it's odd, to me, that I was working on the oil pan just this evening (didn't take it off, but oil was drained), then it just happens to die...  It was working fine a few days ago.

Also, I'm thinking at this point the clatter is just dry lifters, pushrods, valves, etc., not actual damage, right?  I mean, it might have run for 5 minutes, and the temp never even hit 180...?

Please tell me there's no chance I damaged this thing... 

[67_Dodge_Charger]

Sounds bad.  Did you prime the oil pump after buttoning the oil pan back?  Yikes.


good luck

Robert

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Hopefully you didnt go nutz with the silicone and suck up a glob of it in the pick up tube......

[defiance]

No...  Basically all I really did, as far as the engine should be concerned, is change the oil...  I've never primed an oil pump before, so I didn't know I'd need to...  

I didn't use silicone at all, just JB weld, and only a small bit of it directly on the spot where the leak was...

[firefighter3931]

Try turning the engine over with the coil wire off. This will prevent the engine from starting and hopefully allow the pump to prime itself. Keep an eye on the oil pressure guage for some sign of movement. You could also pull a valvecover to see if you're getting oil tp the top end as it's being turned over. Use the starter relay switch to bump it over.

Ron

[Todd Wilson]

Is it a big block or small block?   

Could it be the pressure spring in the oil pump  if its a big block gone bad?    I had a boat anchor 400 that used to do this at random times.



Todd

[firefighter3931]

Could it be the pressure spring in the oil pump  if its a big block gone bad?   

That's one possibility....if the relief spring is sticking oil will bypass back into the sump. A clogged oil filter could also be aggrivateing the situation. Another possibility is a broken oil pump drive....or the oil pump itself is wasted. A clogged pickup will also create these types of problems.

Ron

[defiance]

It's a big block (440).  Looking under the valve cover, it looks like just residual oil up there, nothing new flowing in anywhere.  So that, I think, confirms the oil pump isn't working (spring, shaft, or just a bad pump, whatever the reason, it's not working). 
Tonight I'll pull out the pump.  I think I'll just replace it and the shaft both with melling parts (hp pump - I've heard the hv will sometimes clean out the bottom end), either way, to be sure...  Nowhere local has them, so ordering now gets them here monday... another weekend without the charger

I've convinced myself that I couldn't have hurt the block in such a short time, at such low temps...  whether that's just wishful thinking or not, I guess we'll see...

[myk]

How did you "fix" the oil pan?  After reinstalling the pan, maybe the pickup is too close to the bottom of the pan, or something?

It's probably the pump, and I wouldn't worry about damage.  The same thing happened to me and as soon as I heard the clacking I shut the damn thing off.  A couple seconds of metal on metal shouldn't be TOO bad...

[defiance]

I JB welded it from the outside (pan never taken off), and I was pretty conservative, using just a small spot, so that if it didn't work I could grind it off pretty easy.  It did work, so yeah for that, but the point is, it shouldn't have made a difference in internal size or shape.  I did use a punch to 'curl' the edges of the hole, but we're taking maybe a millimeter of upward curl, and it was at the very bottom rear of the pan, just to the left of the drain plug...

[defiance]

I think I confirmed it's the pump.  The shaft is VERY solid in there, and turns when the engine is turned over, so it's not broken...  and it's not slipping, that's for certain (I just figured out that the oil pump shaft drives the distributor - meaning, I'd PROBABLY notice if that started slipping )
Anyway
It's odd, though... Pump is out, all the internals rotate, and they all *look* ok...  But turning it by hand, I get no suction at all.  I mean, that's a good thing, since I'm hoping the problem is the pump... I just wish I could see something obvious wrong with the pump.

Can anyone confirm, though, that I should be able to feel some suction just hand-rotating the pump?

[original72]

cant tell just by turning by hand as i never tried it but you should get a priming shaft... all it is is a long hex shaft that fits thru the distributor hole after the intermediate shaft is taken out..... locates in the oil pump when it is installed and you attach a electric drill to it..... not sure on which direction the drill should be going but when it is in the right direction.... after a few seconds if all is good you will feel a drag develop on the drill...... and be sure if you do this to mark how the intermediate shaft lines up with everything as it needs to go back in the same way for the timing.... hope this helps.....

Bill

[BrianShaughnessy]

Did you by chance change the oil and filter at the same time and use one of them crappy FRAM filters?   They're known for collapsing and plugging up the works.

[defiance]

ROCKIN!  It worked.  After priming, I started and it was still clattering  but it did so for literally less than 5 seconds and went away

Never really figured out what went wrong with the old pump.  All looked ok, nothing gumming it up, nothing stuck in it, internal parts all looked fine... just didn't actually do anything 

Oh well, as long as it's working

[firefighter3931]

Excellent ! The clattering was just the lifters pumping back up. Good job 


Ron

[resq302]

Glad to hear that you fixed it.  Gremlins that pop up like that can be very annoying.  Trust me... I know.  lol.