69 Charger Rear Valence Question.

[TimS]

I'm working on the body restoration on my 69 Charger rear valence. The rusty one on the car and my repop pc that came with the car when I bought it has the lower corners squared off where the valence meets the quarter panel. I notice on '8 Wheelers' red car in the last topic that it apeears as if there are caps of some sort that fit in those corners. Is that true or am I all wet. Thanks.


OOPS. One more question. Anyone know of or ever tried the glueing on of quarter panels? I heard 3M makes something like this.

[bill440rt]

TimS,
Kudos to you for tackling this project! I just finished doing the body on my current '69 project, and had to do the rear valence, corner caps, 1/4 panel, extensions, etc.
The rear valence is squared off as well as the 1/4 in the lower rear area, and those triangular shaped corners finish off the lower rear of the car. I will warn you, the fit of these parts is terrible, & will need some finessing to get it all together. The seams along the edges of the corners were not completely filled in. I've heard different opinions whether they were filled with seam sealer, or left open. I choose to fill mine with seam sealer, so you still get a line but there is still a slight seam visible. (Sound right?)

Regarding the "glue", (it's actually called Panel Bond Adhesive), there are mixed opinions about the use. If you're building a concours car, you'll want the look of pressure spot welds. For a driver or average show car, mig welding or panel adhesive is the way to go. I used both panel bond adhesive along with welding to put the back of my car together, something like this:

1) Trunk floor: I did not go all the way up to the front seam, behind the rear seat. I "sectioned" it in just below the shock brace. The forward metal of this area was OK, so I did not want to go any further, it worked out well for my situation. I used the panel bond adhesive (PBA ) on all flat mating surfaces. I flanged the front seam and used more PBA. I held it in place with sheet metal screws. Once cured, I removed the screws & migged the holes shut to also weld the floor in.
2) Rear valence & corners: PBA'd all seams.
3) Trunk floor extension: PBA's all seams.
4) RT wheelhouse: I also sectioned this in, using PBA.
5) RT 1/4 panel: I cut off the top flange about 1-1/2" below the belt line, and also the front jamb area & rear flange by the rear body panel. This left the factory openings intact. I flanged the original 1/4 panel up top about 1-1/2" below the belt line so the new "patch panel" sat flush. I used the PBA along all lower areas by the trunk floor extension, wheelhouse, & rocker areas. The rest of the 1/4 I mig welded, 1 spot weld at a time.

You must follow 3M's instructions to the letter for proper adhesion. You also must use their special gun to apply, a local caulk gun from Home Depot will NOT work at all. It comes in 3 minute (for small patches), & 90 minute (for large areas) dry times. PBA is supposed to be stonger than welding, and most tests in the industry can confirm this. Some members may frown on this method, but I found it worked very well on my project car I am building. I'm building a very nice, moderized driver that will also see some show duty. It will never compete in OEM concours judging or will be a numbers-car.

[TimS]

WOW Bill Thanks for the info. I've got a #'s matching 69 Charger that I would like to try this with. A friend of mine is going to help with welding the rear frame rails that it needs along with the Rear spring perches. I would like to glue the front floor pans, trunk floor, extensions and rear tail stuff. I'm also going to get a repop brace that the gas tank straps and rear rails attach to. I plan to weld that.Could you please email the part # and where to get this glue and gun. Could I also get some pointers from you as I go along? Sounds like you have been down the path I am plannning to go. Thanks alot for the info. TimS

tbjts@verizon.net 

[bill440rt]

SURE,  TimS!!! I would be glad to help. I used to do body/paint work as a profession several years ago, but that's turned more towards a hobby for me now. Sounds like you are a fellow hobbyist as well.
I would recommend welding the frame rails & braces as you mention. For the floors, extensions, valance, etc. the "glue" a.k.a. "adhesive" worked very well for me. Cut welding time in half, & no grinding afterwards. In some areas, the extra adhesive that oozed out I just spread with a throwaway brush, for the look of seam sealer. It really smoothes out nicely. You can hold the panel flat with sheet metal screws. I backed out the screws, then used a larger drill bit to countersink the hole for the mig welds to penetrate. Or, some people I know just use more adhesive to fill in the holes. I did that on some areas as well, it actually worked better than welding. The welds turned out to be a little "dirty" from the adjacent adhesive.
I do NOT recommend using the adhesive on any exterior seam, such as the outer perimeter of a 1/4 panel for example. 3M also does not recommend this, either. You may get a "ghost line" afterwards, from contraction/expansion of the panel over time. For lower edges, rocker seams, trunk floor seams, wheelhouses, etc. it works just great. The metal must be cleaned up with a grinder & bare for the best adhesion. I used the 3-minute stuff on small patches. Very FAST drying, you don't have much time to work. Let it set for a few minutes with some vise-grips, & move on to the next patch. Once dry, you can DA it smooth & do your bodywork right over it. I chose to prime first with epoxy primer & do my bodywork over the primer instead.
An added benefit of using the adhesive is for corrosion protection. Water will not get into any seams & cause rust down the road. Just make sure you don't fill any water drain holes with the stuff.
I'll get those numbers for you. Any local auto body supply store that carries 3M products should have this stuff, and the gun. A tube was about $30-$35 or so, & I used about 5-6 tubes with all the metal I had to replace on my car: trans tunnel, trunk floor, RT wheelhouse, RT trunk floor extension, RT 1/4 panel, rear valence, corner caps, & numerous small patches. I borrowed the gun from a friend, but he told me it was about $75-$80. That's where 3M gets you, you NEED their gun to use the product. It's a 2-part adhesive, and also takes special plastic applicator tips that mix the 2 parts automatically as you squeeze the trigger.
I'll try to send you some pics, also. They were a little too big for me to post. I'm sure I  have posted some others in the past here in the Paint & Body section, you might want to try to do a search on this 'site.
Best of luck!!
Best of luck with your project!

[TimS]

That sounds great. I'm a lousy welder, thats why I have friends do that for me. I'm an Electronics Engineer by trade so I will stick with that. There are too many good welders were I work to not take advantage of that. These guys can weld in their sleep. I do all the grinding/cutting prep and post work. This glue operation sounds right up my alley so I can finish the whole job myself, excluding the rear frame area. Thanks again for the info. I look forward to your pics and glue ideas/info. TimS   tbjts@verizon.net

[hemi68charger]

Not sure if Bill mentioned it. One thing I MADE SURE I did when replacing the rear valance on my '68 was to save the two tabs from the original. You should see two tabs tack-welded to the rear crossover support on either side of the license plate area. If your Charger still has them, cut them flush along the edge of the existing valance. When you install the new valance, you use the tabs as a exact guide on where the new one should be in space and as well, you have the total OEM look. I've seen MANY 2nd generation Chargers in which these tabs were missing. The reproduction rear valances do not have the tabs.........

Did I lose ya or do you understand?

Cheers,
Troy

[bill440rt]

 

YES!!!! Troy is right here. Those two tabs are not on the repro valence. I cut the old valence away from the tabs, & left the tabs in place on the car. I left a little 1-4 - 3/8" of metal left on my tabs from the old valence, so they sat INSIDE on the new valence (I bent them up slgihtly to fit). Just a little dab of the adhesive & some neednose vise-grips for clamps, & it's not going anywhere! 

[TimS]

I'm in trouble with the tabs. The car already had the repop qtrs on it and the rear valence doesn't have them either. The original valence is all rusty. I ahve a new one for that.The qtr-valence repo pcs I saw looking through my Paddock book looked like they have tabs of some sort on them. Are these the ones you are talking about? They are on page 85 of the Paddock book with the blue 67 Satellite on the front.

[hemi68charger]

It's not the end of the world if you don't have them, but know this, the valance isn't straight, it has a bend towards the middle of it, so don't try to "straighten" it up... Let it fall where it does.. Maybe someone here can post so pics of the area with a ruler.. I would do mine, but it's at the body shop..........

Cheers,
Troy

[TimS]

Thanks for the info Troy. By the way, thats a very impressive group of cars you have there. Best of all worlds in performance and style.