Stall out:

[Captain D]

Hi all,

Just curious what could cause a car to stall out, especially at incline. Granted, I realize a pump, but what else could (or couldn't) cause it? For instance, an alternator, plugs, ignition coil, distributor cap, etc? Or, all or none of above?

So far, it would 'seem' that the culprit was a failing ignition coil (I previously had an oil filled MSD Blaster 2 purchased from Amazon, but I've heard that there are a lot of nock-off parts sold through them). Anyhow, I later learned that the Blaster 2 coil was *only* to be mounted vertical, which I hadn't done for about the 2 years while using it (I had it mounted horizontal on the intake). Recently, the car simply began to shut itself off 10-15 minutes down the road & it was tough to -restart until things began to cool down. I then installed a Pertronix epoxy filled coil from Summit that can be mounted horizontal on the intake (or in any position). I did a series of tests on my property & the car ran perfectly. However, my primary question is: can a defective coil be enough to cause a vehicle to stall out while actually out on the road, especially at incline?

While I swapped out the coil, I also installed new: plugs, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, temperature sensor, breathers, checked all grounds, added ground straps, etc. The only thing I haven't done yet is multimeter test the alternator because, if it's failing, it may not be providing enough power to the pump to begin with.

Thank you for your time and info if whether or not a defective coil could cause this issue before I actually take the vehicle back out on the road...

[DownZero]

A bad coil can certainly cause a stall condition among other things.

[b5blue]

Weak ignition voltage?

[472 R/T SE]

This may sound jury rig but Id run a separate fuel can in front of the pump (grill area) for diagnosis.  What guys do when trying to start rigs sitting forever. Pretty simple to do.
Doing that can help start eliminating issues.

I know how it is when my junk don't run right.  I resist replacing a bunch of stuff at one time.

Good luck and keep us in the loop.  I'll try to keep up with the thread.




I had a 4 gear that would cut out and i always figured the motion kept it running.  Luckily it never acted up at idle, lol.

[Captain D]

Thank you for the replies. In checking out the voltage regulator as a possibility, I noticed that the VR I had been running with these past few years seems to have been discontinued:

https://www.amazon.in/WELLS-VEHICLE-ELECTRONICS-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B06XWDBJMJ

Yet, this new version shares the same part #:

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/voltage-regulator/p/duralast-voltage-regulator-vr706/129965_0_0?spps.s=5295&cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:8062087320&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5ZSWBhCVARIsALERCvzhy56PhX4_zYF37gH1DxQ_no8qf_c5be7QaMW9J9uLtQOAduL35YQaAk3-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

My alternator is a single field unit, but it's hard to find more options when choosing voltage regulators with this particular set-up. The first VR link withstands up to 72 amps. Hopefully this new VR with the same part # does the same. Anyone else running with this newer version, by chance...?

[b5blue]

Check Alt. output at idle then read voltage off the coil itself. It may be that the Alt. output @ idle is lazy. That would not be a regulator issue. You'd be better off with something like this: https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/pages/ChryslerMegaAmp.php 

[Captain D]

I'll aiming to check the readings w/ a multi-meter this weekend  . As for the VR706, they've been pretty good. I called the Wells Co. and they said that they're set for reactivation but unsure when. Anyhow, thanks again and I'll be sure to post a progress update...

[nvrbdn]

I would be checking the bulk head connector. My Charger did the same thing. The hot wire going in had a bad connection and was arcing. It would run perfect, then just shut off. After checking things, the car would just decide to start. Just as if it was a short in the coil. But after pulling the bulk head connection apart, you could see melting of the plastic in the hot wire connection. I drilled the box out and hard wired the hot wire.

[John_Kunkel]

Seems to me that stalling on an incline is more likely a fuel delivery problem. A gauge will tell.

[Captain D]

Yes, I reached out to Fi-Tech and they indicated that a poor ground can automatically shut down a vehicle. After checking all grounds + getting a fault code on the handheld, I noticed a very poor ground connection at the pump (Tanks, Inc. EFI in-tank pump) in that the ground wire was barely making any connection at all. Perhaps, when going up hill, it had even less of a connection = stall out at incline. Other than the fault code indicating a ground issue, they said that the numbers for the pump look good (we did increase the voltage to the pump).

After heat shrinking the connection, the car went uphill / downhill just fine. However, I took it out 2-3x since then and all of a sudden, after about 5 minutes down the road, it began stalling out yet again - this time on level ground. After a 10 minute cool-down, it would start back up. Having worked on tractors / push-mowers too, it reminded me of a bad coil in that when the mowers had a bad coil, it would run fine for 5-10 minutes, then shut down. After a cold start, it would restart just fine & then a rinse and repeat scenario all over again.

As mentioned previously, I swapped out the Blaster 2 oil-filled coil (which I had mounted horizontal on the intake, which I now learned that they're to be vertical) with an epoxy filled Pertronix unit that can be mounted in any position. Following the coil replacement, I did a series of 'figure 8's' with the Charger around my property for at least 30 minutes & everything performed perfectly. So, perhaps it was just a faulty coil after all. But, do coils sporadically stall intermittently though?

Because I read that just about anything can make a vehicle stall out, I then took a look at the plugs. Interestingly, a few of the plugs (NGK) had their gaps *reduced. I'm a detail freak when it comes to things like this, so there was no way I would have set the gaps that close the last time I did a tune-up only two years ago. I may have heard of a gap increase, but never a reduction.

In checking the battery / alternator, the multimeter read that my RedTop Optima at cold (non-running) was 13.1v. When the engine is running, I read that it's to be between 13.7-14.7v. With all of these new parts on (coil, distributor cap, rotor, plugs, etc.), I'm anxious to do a road test just as soon as possible. I too began looking at the bullhead connection. Everything looks fine and a number of years ago, I bypassed the fusible link around the bullhead connection altogether ('fleet bypass') so that it would run directly to the ammeter. Sorry for the long response, just wanted to explain the circumstances a little clearer...

[nvrbdn]

Sounds like you were very thorough in your search!! Good deal. 

[Captain D]

Thanks bro, I 'preciate it, .

But, ugh, back to the drawing board - since I was getting good numbers on everything, I finally took it out on the road (this time, I had someone follow me. Didn't want to stall out on a curve & some unbeknownst driver ends up in my backseat). Anyhow, it drove fine (even took it on a few inclines on my property) with no stall-out. However, when I put the hammer down on one of my Pennsylvania hilly back roads, the dang thing began sputtering like a backfire & needing a tune-up.

I dunno what else to change out. It's certainly getting better, but I just put all new plugs on. Maybe next I'll try new wires. I have FireCores on - maybe I'll try the Taylor's since Richard @ FireCore can be a lil' tough to get ahold of at times.

But, does this sound like fuel pump or distributor to you?

Fortunately, right before I set out I turned my 'Data Log' on at the handheld. It'll tell a story of what happened during my trial run. I'll check all vacuum hoses, etc., but I'm just an amateur mechanic. I'm just a history / English teacher, ha ha!

[b5blue]

Readings for coil voltage? 

[472 R/T SE]

My purple car is now doing what my blue car did except not as extreme.

Start up and slow fast idle and the aftermarket "amp" gauge will every once in a while drop real quick.  The Gear Vendors box light also quickly shuts off and turns back on...

Two weeks of over 100, maybe next month I can diagnose.  I just cant get down on the floorboards anymore, actually I can, its getting up.

[Captain D]

I 'may' have found the issue: a power wire running from the pump. I noticed that the heat-shrink was getting hot / poor connection and perhaps causing the pump to cut out, especially going uphill where it needs to work harder (see pic). I'll need to find what's going on underneath of it (whether it has too much soldering or none at all), crimp, and re-shrink it.

I'm also going to run a better quality ground wire. Instead of grounding the pump at the frame even though the connection is clean, I'm going to run a 10-12g ground wire directly to the negative battery terminal. But, yes, I'll also look into the coil voltage. The Pertronix coil is rated to produce 45k volts, but we can double-check... 

[b5blue]

My purple car is now doing what my blue car did except not as extreme.

Start up and slow fast idle and the aftermarket "amp" gauge will every once in a while drop real quick.  The Gear Vendors box light also quickly shuts off and turns back on...

Two weeks of over 100, maybe next month I can diagnose.  I just cant get down on the floorboards anymore, actually I can, its getting up.

Loosen Alt. mounting bolts and re tighten as it grounds through the block and check all grounding. (As a staring point for intermittent reading.) I recommend Caig Lab's D-100 DeOxIt everywhere, it's like a light oil that cleans and protects. (Google it.  ) 

[472 R/T SE]

My purple car is now doing what my blue car did except not as extreme.

Start up and slow fast idle and the aftermarket "amp" gauge will every once in a while drop real quick.  The Gear Vendors box light also quickly shuts off and turns back on...

Two weeks of over 100, maybe next month I can diagnose.  I just cant get down on the floorboards anymore, actually I can, its getting up.

Loosen Alt. mounting bolts and re tighten as it grounds through the block and check all grounding. (As a staring point for intermittent reading.) I recommend Caig Lab's D-100 DeOxIt everywhere, it's like a light oil that cleans and protects. (Google it.  ) 

Dude, thanks.  Thats where I'll start.
It just started and I was like fm, I just read a thread on this!

When we put the drivetrain in, iirc I cleaned up the bulkhead connections.  Which only means I better re check as well, lol.  My buddy raised the car so I could wheel into the engine bay and then he lowered it down on me so I could go to town, lol.

[Captain D]

 EFI noted that a build-up of black soot carbon on an 02 sensor can play havoc on all kinds of air / fuel mixture engine performance problems:  

I definitely swapped this out with new...

[b5blue]

 

[Captain D]

Fi-Tech believes that they found the problem:

They informed me today that the EFI Fi-Tech is impossible to run with a ballast resistor. Well, I've been running my throttle body EFI for the past 6-8 years with a ballast resistor installed. I've only recently began having some minor stalling issues & even though I've been unable to do a test run yet (working 2 jobs), a faulty ground wire, failing ignition coil, & a bad 02 sensor were tell-tail signs of replacements that could be the culprits, which I'll try to do a test-run soon.

With that being said, for those who have a Fi-Tech 600 HP unit, do you have a ballast resistor installed on your 68-70 Charger or no? If not, apparently I have just performed the impossible (having driven thru 4 states & all over creation these past several years) with a ballast resistor installed on mine...

What puzzles me is that I have a Mancini billet distributor, which must use a ballast resistor, but Fi-Tech says that the ballast resistor must be removed...