Steering wheel turns without any effort

[General 68]

1970 steering box turns super easy after changing o-ring and seal in steering shaft end. To change these seals the steering Valve and its pivot lever and spring hadde to come out. After a few taps on the valve to senter the wheels everything was good exept that ut turns both ways with dangerously little effort to the steering wheel. What did I miss when I put the valve assembly back in?

[Steve T]

I have basically the same issue.  I had my steering box rebuilt and it turns ridiculously easy making it almost impossible not to over correct while keeping in in the lane.  I have read a number of posts on the steering box and a couple solutions come up, "shim" the current steering box or replace it with a Borgeson.  I would like to know more about both but right now I am curious how to shim the existing box?  How is that accomplished?

[Kern Dog]

The steering pump has a threaded fitting at the back where the pressure hose connects. Remove the hose, remove the large nut that is screwed into the back of the pump. There is a series of small parts, one is a tubular rod sort of thing with a bolt screwed into the end of it. It has thin washers between the bolt head and the rod. The MORE washers, the lower the boost pressure that the pump puts out. I recall reading that for many, .125 thick of washers or a single washer was the target thickness to lower the pressure to a decent level.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Shims only work with the Saginaw pump. Federal and trw are not as easy to modify. But a sag takes 15 minutes to do. Stock v8 b bodies run at roughly 1500 psi. An 1/8" shim in the spring will drop it to approximately 800-900 psi and give you the feel similar to a modern lx platform charger or challenger.

[Steve T]

How do I tell which pump I have?  Looks like this:

[XH29N0G]

I think that is a Saginaw - see what others say.  It is not a federal.  My Saginaw had a different reservoir (looked like a bottle on top). 
I also believe that all of these changes are to make it so it does not feel the way it did when new, but more like a newer car with some feel to it.  My car had absolutely no feel (or very very little) to the steering with the stock set up.  It was like that from new. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

From the little that can be seen in that photo, it looks like a saginaw. Google mopar trw federal saginaw differences, there are tons of photos of the 3 lined up

[Steve T]

Okay, I have the pump out and have removed the parts behind the nut where the high pressure hose attaches.  I do not see any washers (except the random one on the top of the pic sitting on my workbench that I didn't notice and has nothing to do with the pump).  Where should the washers be placed?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Shims go here.

[Steve T]

Where does one get something that will fit that? Does it have to be same diameter as the nut?

[Steve T]

I opened a lock washer to fit around the shaft and closed up so it would stay.  Stay tuned...

[Kern Dog]

Good luck. I wonder if the split in the washer will allow fluid to bleed off?
This is a tricky thing to find...the washers have a very thin section because they have to have a large enough inner diameter to slip over the screw but a small enough outer diameter to fit back into the valve tunnel.

[myk]

Bergmanautocraft.com sells a shim kit...

[Steve T]

Thank you all for your help with this!  That made a noticeable improvement in the steering feel and response.  I would like a little more so I will look for additional/thicker washers to shim with.  But first I need to jump over the the engine forum, my water pump housing is leaking like a sieve.  50 year old cars...

[Steve T]

Okay folks, installed the shim kit from Bergmanautocraft and that has also made a noticeable improvement.  Problem is that it is still not where I would like it to be in terms of input/response.  The front end is tight, all new bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends etc. and the steering box has been rebuilt, but the steering still feels sloppy, for lack of a better word.

What do I need to look into in terms of pumps and steering boxes to get to a modern car feel?  I am willing to invest for the desired result.

[Mike DC]

                  
Are you bothered by the "tricycle" feel?  The way the steering doesn't even try to pull itself back to center when you let go of the wheel (while moving)?  

That's not the steering box.  It's the factory front end alignment specs.  They designed the front end for essentially zero caster angle (because many cars on the platform would get manual unassisted steering).  Modern sporty cars have big caster angles, like 5+ degrees.  

You can add a few degrees with offset 'problem solver' bushings in the stock LCAs, or aftermarket UCAs with the ball joint moved back slightly (towards the rear of the car).  

[Steve T]

That is really not my major concern.  I am trying to get rid of the "play" in the steering.  If you turn the wheel with the car off and sitting still, it will move 5 to 6 inches before you get any resistance from moving the front tires.  Modern cars have no such play and that is what I am wanting to eliminate.

[Mike DC]

                       
You do know about the play adjustment procedure on the factory PS box, right?  I don't think you have mentioned it in this thread.

[Kern Dog]

There will always be free play with the engine off. With the engine running, it tightens up BUT I have yet to see a classic Mopar with ZERO slop at the wheel. Even adjusted to the gnats ass, you'll still have some.
Here is why:
The design of this unit dates back to the late 50s. It is a good design for the parameters that were laid down for it. Buyers back then did not take corners fast but they did drive on dirt roads, gravel roads, some paved roads too of course. The desired feel for cars was effortless power steering. GM cars were similar. It was a feel that everyone seemed to want except for guys with little sports cars.
In the 70s when "handling" started to become important, Ma Mopar did develop a "Firm Feel" type of steering box for use in Police and Taxicabs.  The guts inside used stiffer springs and such to reduce some of the pinky finger steering traits.
Sometime in the 90s, a guy in Washington state named Dick Ross opened a business named Firm Feel. They are still in business and specialize in Mopar steering gear and suspension parts. I have one of their rebuilt steering boxes in my car and can say that it is a huge improvement over a stock unit. It still has that free play though....This is probably not something that can be fully eliminated. Many do suggest the Borgeson steering box and so far, the only drawback that has been common for them is that they often exhibit a H I S S sound when steering at slow speeds.

[Steve T]

Thank you, Kern Dog, for that fabulous explanation!  As a data analyst, context is everything that was very helpful and makes perfect sense.

Mike DC, I am not familiar with the play adjustment procedure. Please do tell!

[Mike DC]

           

Mike DC, I am not familiar with the play adjustment procedure. Please do tell!

Look about 2/3rds of the way down the page.  It says 'Lash Bash' in the dark blue heading line.

https://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/steeroids.html

[Steve T]

Thank you Mike DC!  I will be replacing my torsion bars in a month or so and will wait till that is done and the alignment is finished.  I'll let you know how it goes.