what do you guys think about angle milling heads, intake?

[Harper]

when running a small block my machinist out of Texas Angle milled my cylinder heads and matched my intake (we were not able to do any porting to the cylinder heads, but were allowed to mill them and the block.He also did a 5 angle valve job. He had several cars in the class i was running so he knew about what he could get away with. My full license/insured street car with drag radials, thru mufflers (with dumps) stock roller cam, roller rockers,EFI  and a 5 speed i was able to run 12.7 at 107 mph in a 3200 lb car. needless to say I know most of my performance came from the ANGLE milling the heads and intake.

[c00nhunterjoe]

What class? What was ghe rest of the build? Including the trans chassis and rear.

[Harper]

NMRA Factory Stock
Mustang fox body 1991 chassis, Pro shifted 5 speed borg with 8.8 rear with 3.73 gears. suspension was basically south side machine (upper and lower) bars, battle box reinforcements for upper and lower control arms, stock front suspension with sway bar removed, skinnys in the front, BF Goodrich 275 drag radials in rear. air bag in the right rear spring, 24 lb injectors, Pro M mass air meter, electric fan, P Heads, P head headers.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Forgive any sound of arrogance here but i dont know any other way to say it. The rules for nmra nearly mirror nhra stock but leave ot more grey areas then nhra. Based on their rules, a 10 second fox body mustang is a cake walk. In short, you can run gt40 heads, gt 40 intake, intake spacers, .480 lift cam with any duration and custom grind, +10 crank stroke, any aftermarket fuel injectjon. I mean good lord, i can make them FLY.

[Challenger340]

Angle milling is pretty much only done for 2 reasons
* to increase compression by taking as much as possible out of the Head Chamber for smallest CC
* Increase/stand up the Valve Angle a bit(used to help 23* sb chevs)
and Yep,
you then have to mill correct the Intake Manifolds angles to fit.

Can't see much reason nowadays on a BB Mopar build ?

[Harper]

Forgive any sound of arrogance here but i dont know any other way to say it. The rules for nmra nearly mirror nhra stock but leave ot more grey areas then nhra. Based on their rules, a 10 second fox body mustang is a cake walk. In short, you can run gt40 heads, gt 40 intake, intake spacers, .480 lift cam with any duration and custom grind, +10 crank stroke, any aftermarket fuel injectjon. I mean good lord, i can make them FLY.

yea the rules have changed and they are haulin ass nowdays.

Angle milling is pretty much only done for 2 reasons
* to increase compression by taking as much as possible out of the Head Chamber for smallest CC
* Increase/stand up the Valve Angle a bit(used to help 23* sb chevs)
and Yep,
you then have to mill correct the Intake Manifolds angles to fit.

Can't see much reason nowadays on a BB Mopar build ?

yea i was just curious, since most all of the cylinder heads for a BB mopar seem to be large in the CC area.  I mean everyone i have talked to pretty much says in a mopar build (shave the block) in every instance to increase the compression ratio/ build hp. Which makes sense.
again i dont really need more than 9:5:1 I do not believe.

[Challenger340]

Forgive any sound of arrogance here but i dont know any other way to say it. The rules for nmra nearly mirror nhra stock but leave ot more grey areas then nhra. Based on their rules, a 10 second fox body mustang is a cake walk. In short, you can run gt40 heads, gt 40 intake, intake spacers, .480 lift cam with any duration and custom grind, +10 crank stroke, any aftermarket fuel injectjon. I mean good lord, i can make them FLY.

yea the rules have changed and they are haulin ass nowdays.

Angle milling is pretty much only done for 2 reasons
* to increase compression by taking as much as possible out of the Head Chamber for smallest CC
* Increase/stand up the Valve Angle a bit(used to help 23* sb chevs)
and Yep,
you then have to mill correct the Intake Manifolds angles to fit.

Can't see much reason nowadays on a BB Mopar build ?

yea i was just curious, since most all of the cylinder heads for a BB mopar seem to be large in the CC area.  I mean everyone i have talked to pretty much says in a mopar build (shave the block) in every instance to increase the compression ratio/ build hp. Which makes sense.
again i dont really need more than 9:5:1 I do not believe.

IMO,
9.5:1 would NOT provide sufficient Cylinder pressure for optimal performance/efficiency with Aluminum Heads and the duration of Camshafts you are contemplating. 
HP/Trq would be left on the table.

Other than at NAPA stores or other Farm Implement type Machine Shops.....
Block squaring up/milling should be pretty much standard practice on any decent Engine Machining Pkg., just as is Honing with a Torque Plate to standard good practice ?
Even if for no other reason than to provide longevity in patent Head Gasket sealing with the correct Block finish for Gasket "bite", far beyond being just FLAT.

just say'in....
Machining is one of the most important aspects to any performance engine build, and setting "quench" distance through Block squaring/milling is one of those most basic procedures therein performed ?  
These days,
there is absolutely no reason to even consider angle milling the cylinder heads as a "tool in the toolbox" for C.R. increases, if adequate parts selection and good machining criterion is maintained from the outset.

Reading Homework:
You would be well advised if you wish to make informed Parts selection & Labor decisions in your Engine/parts aspirations:
To Google "Dynamic Compression Ratio" and research the topic BEFORE contemplating any further Piston/Head or Camshaft parts selections, or "static" Compression Ratios you are planning.

   

[Harper]

will do challenger340 thanks for the good advice

[BSB67]

Back in your original post asking about roller cams  I gave you a simple receipt for the short block and heads in two sentences.  Here it is again, just simpler: zero deck, aftermarket aluminum head, CR to match cam (and available gas and altitude if you like the edge)  It is the perfect receipt for anything up to 700 HP.  It can be simply attained with readily a!vailable parts for 440s, 451's, 470's, 493's, 505's.......... no top secret stuff or magic needed.  All available in catalogs, just add a good machinist.

It is so simple really.  Because we are car guys, we like to talk cars ad nauseam.  Me too.  Unfortunately, parts availability has made it so simple, anyone can do it and not much to talk about there.

If you want to get a nice long discussion going on some relatively insignificant detail, ask about rod side clearance, or rocker arm geometry.   

[Harper]

If you want to get a nice long discussion going on some relatively insignificant detail, ask about rod side clearance, or rocker arm geometry.   icon_smile_big

and here we are, what is the side clearance of a stock rod and stock crank, as compared to what it should be in a performance application. This is something i have never considered to be of great value, it was assumed that side clearance (assuming you are referring to the the clearance at the crank and not the clearance at bottom of the cylinder?) should or would need to be left at factory clearances? now i can only begin to believe there may be hp value in this as well...

[69Chrgr]

There is a guy on Moparts.com that has a SBM 408 in a 91 Fox Body Mustang that goes 9's all day, so yeah those Fox Body's are easy to go fast in. I had a 92 LX 5.0 but Dad's Buick GN pretty much toasted me every time. That's why I have it now sitting next to my Hellcat.

[Harper]

but Dad's Buick GN pretty much toasted me every time

thats why i built my 79 coupe mustang with 472 ci big block with 150 hp nitrous plate added on top of it...
needless to say i never had a problem with a GN after that.

[69Chrgr]

Wow, that's a lot to handle a V6. Lol. I'm a Mopar guy, but I don't think you would have to look very hard to find a willing GN with a serious build that may think otherwise....

[c00nhunterjoe]

This one runs pretty good for being a 3.8 liter and small tires.
https://youtu.be/dUt-JUCeh7w

[alfaitalia]

Cool.....that must be making a fair few dobbins......any idea how many anyone?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Cool.....that must be making a fair few dobbins......any idea how many anyone?

Depending on the weather there, the math says between 950 and 975 horse.