loud ticking noise

[c00nhunterjoe]

Was lifter preload  checked when assembled? Rocker tips checked for wear? Cam lobes inspected?

[Tscott38]

Sounds like it's coming from everywhere under the valley pan now.  I didn't notice anything unusual about the valve tips and the rockers seemed ok as well. But I'm not sure I knew what to look for.  Just wondering what the chances are that it'll get quieter if driven. It's only run for 20 minutes.  The cam lobes looked good and the wear marks seemed very normal.  I didn't rotate the engine so preload is unknown.     The old lifters all looked good though for wear.   I figured if they didn't have any wear the cam was ok as well.  Before I did anything though this noise was intermittent so I doubted anything was wrong with the valve train itself.  Thanks for the ideas. 

[PRH]

Oil pressure?

If you're relying on the factory gauge, I'd verify it's accuracy with a mechanical one before I went much farther.

What oil did you use?

Before you changed the lifters, did you try changing the oil and filter?

The lifters you took out were probably "VL 79", which was the TRW part number for a BB mopar lifter.......meaning they weren't original. They had been replaced before.

[Bad B-rad]

Well you said its under the valley tray now so it cant be a valve spring,But if the problem was intermittent, there are  only a few parts that can cause intermittent noises. I would have also started with the lifters, next I would check valves and springs. With valve covers off crank the engine with a remote starter button or have a buddy crank it over(pull coil wire so it wont start) and watch all the valves work look for problems there, make sure it all works/looks/sounds good and then you can scratch two things off the list
From what you described I would have bet it was the lifters. If you just changed them and used good zinc heavy oil,and broke them in correctly, I would doubt it is likely to just go away with more driving time if it didn't get better almost right away,when new lifters pumped up then I don't think its going to go away now.

[Tscott38]

oil pressure gauge showed 50-60 when started up cold, then when hot cruising 30-40   At idle it'll go down to 25.  when i re-did the gauges, the new gauge showed about the same - have never verified it with a mechanical gauge.  The engines definitely got some age on it.   

[Tscott38]

forgot to add - changed the oil with valvoline VR-1 10w -30 before the new lifters went in.  plenty of assembly lube was put on the lobes before i started it too.  When i changed the oil seals on the valves a year( 3000 miles) ago i replaced them with the umbrella type i've often seen mentioned on this site and it cleared up the smoking on startup issue right away. 

Sticking valve?

[PRH]

I don't see where you mentioned which part number lifters you bought.

There are "fast bleed" and "slow bleed" lifters available from Johnson.
The fast bleed lifters will make a little noise, so, depending on what you bought....... It could be "normal".

For a basically stock 440 with stock springs, etc, I would have used A-976's(assuming you're using 1968 and later style pushrods).

[Tscott38]

its a '67 motor (10/26/66 casting date), so after looking them up in Johnson's website and talking with the guy its was 812's that were called for.  I asked him what the difference between the 976's and 812's because from the dimensions and pictures on their site they appear identical - he said it was a small variation in the size of the oil band.  I didn't know to ask about fast or slow bleed. I measured my pushrods when they were out and while i don't have the dimensions in front of me now, i was comfortable that i'd seen several posts here that confirmed they were stock length for a 68.  I didnt think to look up if there were any variations in them from 67 to 68 though.

Its almost as if the noise has changed from a more isolated tapping under a valve cover to a more subtle and general tapping under the valley pan.

There was no noise at all when the previous lifters were not misbehaving though.   

[ACUDANUT]

Good info here 

[PRH]

The 67 pushrods have two different diameter ends.
The end the sits in the lifter is like 1/4", the rocker end is 5/16".

If you have pushrods that are the same on both ends(5/16"), then they are the 68 and later version, and you would also now have the wrong lifters to go with them.

Additionally, the two different styles are also a different length.
The 67-and earlier are 9.375", the 68-later are 9.315".

The real difference between the 812 and 976 is the pushrod cup.

812's fit 67 and earlier bb(with 67 and earlier style pushrods), 976's fit 68 and later bb(with 68 and later style pushrods).

The style of pushrods you have determines which lifters to run.

As near as I can tell by searching on the net, the "VL 79" style lifter crosses to the 976, not the 812.
Since it didn't have the OE lifters in it before, it's just as likely it didn't have the 67 style pushrods in it either.

I did a quick search....... At this point, if you have the wrong pushrods, those are what I would change.
I found some Sealed Power brand on eBay for about $38 for 8 pieces.
Part number RP-3034.
Those are what goes with the 812 lifters.

The pic on the summit site either isn't correct, or sealed power is using the wrong tip on one end. However the pic on most of the ebay listings shows the correct tip on the lifter end.

The Clevite number for the early pushrods is 215-4036.
The Melling number is MPR-151.

[Tscott38]

So you're thinking the 5/16 ball end on my 68 pushrods is not mating well to the 1/4 cups on my 67 lifters and that's where the noise could be coming from?  Or is it more the shorter length of the 68 (9.315) versus the 67 (9.375) where it is?  Either way - it sounds like a plan.  Thank You for your help and research here.  I never knew there were so many variations in lifters.  i'll get back in there and try it.       

PS - found my notes - the pushrods had identical ball cup ends - I think they were 5/16 diameter shafts but i didn't check it.  They were between 9 1/4" and 9 5/16" long, so when i saw several posts mentioning 9.315 is stock that's what I figured i had.  Since the dimension of the 812 and the 976 lifter were identical I figured i didn't have an issue when I bought them.  Live and learn.   

[PRH]

It's a 50 year old motor, and most of those have been apart before..... At least once.
A lot of people assume the parts for the various years are "all the same".
Some are, some aren't.

In your case..... They aren't.

The general rule to go by with these old motors/cars is..... Be as sure as you can of what you have before you order new parts.

Sounds like if you put some '67 style pushrods in it you'll be good to go.
And, you'll also know what you've got in there for future reference.

Not that this matters now, but I'm pretty sure after hearing that initial ticking, if you would have changed the oil and filter with some Brad Penn 15w40 or 20w50 the noise would have gone away.

[Tscott38]

changed out the pushrods with the Melling 151's for the 67 motor and all the noise is gone.  I should have noticed there was too much slop in the rockers when i put it back together the first time.  Thanks again for your help. 

[PRH]

I was wondering if you were going to change the pushrods.

Glad to hear you got it sorted out.

And now you know what's in there.