Uh oh! Found a short (I think)

[Judhudson]

Well, I rebuilt my front end (didn't touch any wires, just did suspension) and when I went to start the car up, my horn honked as soon as I started it and wouldn't shut off until I take the key out of the ignition.  I replaced the horn relay thinking it fixed it, but it didn't.  I also found out that the horn relay is really hot, and that is only after the car is on for a minute or two.

So I think I have a short somewhere.  I did notice that my key-in-buzzer does not work either.  By looking at my wiring diagram, I see a Dark Green Horn wire that goes to the bulkhead disconnector, Black Ground wire that goes to my steering column, Violet wire that goes back to the fuse box, and another black wire that is the key-in-buzzer that goes to my steering column.

Now, I did take off the steering wheel and work on the column a bit.  I didn't mess with any wiring, and I put it back where it should.  Plus, it worked fine when I test drove it after the steering column was worked on - no problems.  Do you think there a short somewhere that may not even have anything to do with my relay? 

[Chryco Psycho]

if the wire in the column grounds it will trip the relay & cause the horn to go , , i would start there & see if the black wires is grounded somewhere below or in the column

[Nacho-RT74]

I hope this diagram will help somehow. Colors are real ones

-all black wires drive ground
-black traced yellow dirves positive from parking lights source
-green traced red, is output from relay up to bulkhead to horn itself.
-Violet, constant positive coming from bat side of fuse box.
-Reds are also ground to and from key in switch.

[Judhudson]

Just out of curosity, what does the "lamp on reminder" buzzer look like and where can I find it?  I did forget to mention, that at one point when I was trying to troubleshoot this issue, that the horn came on when I had the door open.  That'd make a good car alarm

[Nacho-RT74]

Lamp on reminder buzzer sounds when you have parking lights lighted on and driver's side door opened.
Key in buzzer is the same about key on ignition switch.

From 71 up 73 they are different buzzers as stated on diagram. On 74 they changed to an only one buzzer stuff that also controls the fasten seatbelts warning light and also buzzer.

I'll try to get a pic somewhere. I have several of those around but not dig cam. Let me check on my pics archive.

The lamps on reminder buzzer uses a 2 wires harness from the plug up to buzzer.

The lamps on buzzer was part of lighting package, with top fender turn signal, ash tray lamp, glove box lamp, map lamp and key in courtesy lamp.

[Judhudson]

Okay, I see.  You can hold off the picture then, since I don't believe that to be a problem due to my light works, and so does the buzzer for the door... Looks like I get to play around with some wiring later on

[Nacho-RT74]

here is a diagram showing how is the buzzer and how are plugs.
Shape and dimensions of lamps on buzzer is very similar to the horn relay and prong sare the same position that flashers and uses same plug... I think there is a pic of someone posted around the board... I'll search for it.

Of course you will have allways lights working even without that buzzer. You don't need to cut anything to add that buzzer on your car.Source plug is already on harness and is an splice from the parking lights and door groudn circuit. Is juts a plug and play job

[Nacho-RT74]

OH AND ABOUT THE SHORT... it sounds like horn ground wire is stripped of somehow inside the steering column and making ground contact. Did happened to me but with key in buzzer red wires, when I was installing the lower bracket to dash frame I pissed off those wires when was tighten bolts and  I got a constant buzzer once conected battery WITHOUT KEY ON IGNITION SWITCH LOL...

to test that you can just unplug the turn signal switch and check if horns keeps sounding. If not then problem is somewhere isnside the column. Check for continuity between black wire in that harness coming from column and chassis. If tehre is continuity, then it could be striped of wire or damaged horn switch

[Nacho-RT74]

BTW... EDITED DIAGRAM... horn switch wire was running throught the wrong plug down the column, now is good

[Bandit72]

Just out of curosity, what does the "lamp on reminder" buzzer look like and where can I find it?  I did forget to mention, that at one point when I was trying to troubleshoot this issue, that the horn came on when I had the door open.  That'd make a good car alarm

lol, reminds me of my brothers catalina...after him and my grandpa got done doing some work to it...when you'd pull out the lights the horn would honk, and if you hit the horn the lights would flash...

later 

[Nacho-RT74]

I did forget to mention, that at one point when I was trying to troubleshoot this issue, that the horn came on when I had the door open.  That'd make a good car alarm

did you have the key in when that happens ? if you did, It looks that you crossed the door ground coming from door jam switch with the Horn switch wire. both wires are black, same gauge and use same kind of terminals buth one arrives to turn signal plug and the other one up to ignition switch plug under column.

[Judhudson]

I'm going to try to check them tonight to see what's going on.  I'll go thru everything too and let you know

[Judhudson]

Nacho, my Dad and I did some dissecting today.  We can only come up with a faulty key-in-buzzer switch.  All of the wires from the relay are working properly according to the voltimeter.  When I put my key in, sometime it makes this weak sound like the key-in-buzzer trying to work and most of the time it doesn't.  Also, my horn relay is extremely hot!

We also unplugged the turn signal switch, and the horn kept sounding.  So do you think the key-in-switch went bad?  Pitty considering I just worked on the column, now I got to do it again

-Jud

[Judhudson]

Oh, by the way, dumb question.  Is the key-in-buzzer switch seperate from the ignition switch, or is that the same part?

[Nacho-RT74]

key in buzzer is a separate part of the turn signal switch assembly and also from the ignition switch. Is just joined to the ignition switch plug by wires terminals, but once you remove terminals from plug is another part.

Be sure you have really damaged the switch, if you are noticing hard to sound the buzzer it could be not the switch like the buzzer/horn relay itself. Switch works or not... there is not half of way on that.

A damaged switch could works oftenly and sometimes not ( did happen to me ), but as long gives signal to buzz, will hear a clear buzzer.

here is a pic I had saved of my switch

[Nacho-RT74]

Do you have another horn relay beside the one mounted on fuse box on the car ? I don't know if is cleared enough that device is the buzzer AND ALSO the original stock horn relay. If you have another relay to horns on engine bay the horn problem it could be on THE OTHER aftermarket relay.

Stock horn relay works with ground signal input and send positive to horn. aftermarket horns relays only drives positive on all ends.

If you are sure you don't have another relay around, some things to do about horn:
-unplung BOTH harness under column and remove key.
          If horn stopped then horn wire it could be stripped inside the column and is grounded. Horn switch drives ground... Or wheel horn switch damaged. Check for constant ground on black wire on turn signal switch harness.

          If you still have horns working then ( keep the harnesses unplugged down the column ):
-remove the relay/buzzer.
-check for ground arriving on terminal with black wire ( not the one what feeds the separated prong, the one grouped with the other ones ). I don't remmeber if I did draw on diagram the back view of buzzer/relay, or I draw the front view of fuse box, so separate the fuse box from bulkhead and check which cavity is arriving the black wire. If you get ground up there, then problem is somewhere somehow on underdash harness. ( if you don't have another aftermarket relay around )

Of course another posibility is damaged buzzer/relay, what is really what I think it could be now you mentioned a weak buzzer sound and heats there ( if you are talking about heat on THAT relay ), but if you don't have another one around to test, check for wiring is the only stuff.

The buzzer weak sound it could be also rusted parts inside the relay/buzzer. The buzzer is no more than a metalic tab with an electrode between a magnetic field with also another electrode that when close circuit start to vibrate what makes the buzz sound.

Sometimes the tab needs to be adjusted and cleaned also to make a better sound, bended it a little bit down or up. I have made it. You can bend the tab or the coil prong end with the electrode ( on top ) instead the tab. I would go with the second one. Tab is hard to get accurate and easy to damage.

I remember that tab also close the circuit to make the horn relay works so when you makes the horn sound, the key in buzzer stops as long horn sounds. Is a shared tab I think...

Check inside the horn/buzzer is easy, just remove the cover from the prongs baseplate.

To check for key in switch just test continuity between both red wires, with key in and out. Good switch is continuity on multitester with key in. If you don't have a properly work, before replace you need to check if is good bolted on column collar first, it could be just some loosen. Tight the screw and make the test again. You need of course remove wheel to tight anything inside the column.

[Nacho-RT74]

I have foud that try to fix some electrical stuff from the distance, trying to explain every detail, could it makes   seem a BIGGER problem that really is...

sorry if it does.

[71_deputy]

kept outta this one as Natcho was thinking the same as me- but

quote: Check inside the horn/buzzer is easy, just remove the cover from the prongs baseplate.


could be rusty or even need a new relay as I have seen them look good- but not work.

it being warm tells me something is admiss- is it warm all the time?  like if you go back to the car a day later? key in ing.switch or not in?

these small things can help us in pointing you in the right direction!!!!!!

[Judhudson]

Only when the key is in the ignition switch (not running, running, as long as it is in the ignition) the relay gets hot.  My apologies.  We printed out what you suggested Nacho, and my dad and I set some time on Sunday to see what we can do.

[71_deputy]

coil of the relay is internally shorting out causing it to over heat- get a new relay.

[Judhudson]

I've been getting new relays thou, I have 3 new ones and they all do the same.  Get hot with the key in the ignition.  When I put my key in the ignition and take it out, the relay clicks.  I assume that is normal since the door opening and closing makes it click too.  And the horn makes it click too.

[Nacho-RT74]

just in case:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-MOPAR-71-73-CUDA-CHARGER-KEY-HORN-BUZZER-RELAY-NIB_W0QQitemZ4631172667QQcategoryZ42606QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-NOS-E-Body-Key-Buzzer-switch-2947488_W0QQitemZ8055581463QQcategoryZ46101QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm still searching the lamps on buzzer

[Nacho-RT74]

DAMN HERE I FOUND SEVERAL BUZZERS THAT WEREN'T AVAILABLE LONG TIME AGO....

here is the lamps on buzzer to 71-73 that you will need to get that warning signal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-MOPAR-1971-1973-Dodge-B-Body-Headlmp-Warning-Buzzer_W0QQitemZ4569014345QQcategoryZ10076QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

here is the seatbelt waring buzzer to 71/73 and also 74 and laters models without the lamps on buzzer option:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-MOPAR-1973-9-ALL-SEAT-BELT-BUZZER_W0QQitemZ8002446137QQcategoryZ6763QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

AND HERE IS THE 74 MULTIBUZZER FUNCTION THAT WORKS TO ALL BUZZERS WARNING SIGNAL... KEY IN, LAMPS ON AND SEATBELT... ALSO CONTROLS THE SEATBELT LIGHT... amazing... fist time I see it and I need it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-MOPAR-1974-B-Body-Warning-Buzzer_W0QQitemZ4600306906QQcategoryZ10076QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I found an used one from a member of this board but this is the first time I see it since I never got a pic of it