Smith Bros. Restorations Push-Bar Question:

[Captain D]

Hi guys,

Just curious to see, from those owners, what you think of the Smith Bros. wide / late California push-bars. Some folks say that they bolt it under their frame while others say that it's ideal to have it welded instead. Any personal preferences, pros / cons, etc.? And lastly, I realize that this may be an off question - but are these push bars quite heavy vs. the narrower push-bars made of aluminum, just out of curiosity?

Thank you for any and all replies,
Aaron

[keith88]

I have the season1 one on mine and i love it very well made a lot sturdier than i expected. I imagine that  the one you want is made from the same quality.

[Mike DC]

    
Wide Pushbars:
 

IMO aluminum construction would be a nice idea here to save weight.  It is pretty heavy in steel.  I think at least 30 lbs.  

The wide pushbars on the TV cars were welded to the subframe rails and the chrome bumper.  The bottom legs of the pushbar's side plates angled upwards & back to lay against the sides of the sub-rails under the battery area, just behind the (factory) bumper bracket mountings.  The center of the pushbar's lower tube welded right onto the chrome bumper (back side of the tube, attaching to the bumper at the center point right above the license plate area.)  

The wide pushbars on the TV cars were not removable without a cutting saw/torch.  It's a good way to make a stunt car durable, but a bad way to put together a nicely restored car.  There are too many different reasons you might need to take it back off eventually.  


The common method for DOH fans has been to fabricate a bolt-on method, such as using existing holes in the car.  Different people have done different things.  One popular method is to add a small horizontal plate to the back of the lower pushbar tube, and bolt it onto the 3 license plate bracket holes (in the chrome bumper).  It's best to enlarge those holes a bit & use strong bolts.  

I don't know if there is a single most agreed-upon method of doing the bottom legs of the side plates to the frame area.  You could do some modifying & mount them onto the factory bumper brackets, or onto their holes, etc.    



Narrow pushbars:

They were not very practical which is why the TV crew abandoned them.  The pushbar's side plates were bolted or welded to the chrome bumper (only two mounting points total).  Upside: This makes the pushbar removable (comes off with the chrome bumper).    

The other problem with the narrow pushbar is that the lower half of the side plates (below the chrome bumper) can hit curbs/etc if you aren't careful.  The result can be a bent chrome bumper, bashed lower valance, etc.  

GL replicas virtually always attach narrow pushbars using the two factory bumper bolt holes just outside the chromed factory bumper guards (walrus teeth).

         

[Captain D]

The wide push-bar catches my eye, but dang, 30lbs. seems like a lot of wasted weight for being a 'prop' for the most part. Perhaps I'll call Smith Bros. Restorations to see if they will be willing and able to produce the same piece, but in aluminum. I don't know if they will, but hey - worth asking I suppose. The last time that I chatted with them, they noted that there is a bracket welded to the lower bar that fits perfectly with the license plate assembly. So, the front should be pretty easy - I just didn't know if drilling through my frames would be a good idea or not vs. welding. But, if it's welded, it's now a permanent fixture to the car, which I'm not too keen on. So, I would prefer bolted if it's a safe option.

Thanks again for the replies & something to sleep on...
Best to y'all,
Aaron

[Brock Lee]

I am only familiar with the other bar found on the Valencia ranch (there were two, the Smith's got one and built a jig around it).

We modified it to be bolted on rather than welded. It does make a big difference in the handling. The car has been adjusted and aligned with that bar installed. We took it off once and everything was off.

Steel is heavy. Even the small bars we made out of steel were weighty, not nearly as bad as the wide bar. Aluminum is really the way to go. It is just expensive.

   

The other problem with the narrow pushbar is that the lower half of the side plates (below the chrome bumper) can hit curbs/etc if you aren't careful.  The result can be a bent chrome bumper, bashed lower valance, etc.  

GL replicas virtually always attach narrow pushbars using the two factory bumper bolt holes just outside the chromed factory bumper guards (walrus teeth).

         

Yeah, I have the mounting tab prototype of the small bars we reverse engineered (Lee1 got the actual bar prototype). That whole thing was very much on my mind. We built a whole damn jig that incorporated an actual bumper and brackets built so each bar could be assembled by the shop with exactly the same spacing and positioning, bar to bar. It was for the very reasons you explain. My initial small bar was junk. They just slapped bumper bolt tabs in place not caring about design or function and it ended up putting dents in my valence over time. The refined system put a gap there by elevating the lower section of the bar slightly off the bumper like they appeared on the show (they hung off two bolts in the top). That elevation made all the difference and is something the people that have copied our bars don't get right. They try and copy what they see, without using the jig. It comes out wrong.

(Edit- I realized this post sounded like an ad. We no longer make them, so please don't inquire about buying one).

[Mike DC]

  
Either size pushbar is hanging way the hell out past the front end of the car.  Leverage magnifies the effect of the weight.  

[marshallfry01]

I love Dukes and I love the General Lee, but I hate the push bars. I'm in the process of building a replica and I will not be putting a push bar on it. The 69 grille is beautiful. I don't want it covered up!

[Brock Lee]

I agree with you..it clutters the front end up for sure. But mine has saved my grille and possibly my hood once. At the time a new grille was not available. So I have kind of softened up on the idea..lol

I was just thinking..the material thickness they are made from matter too. We have a real surviving small pushbar that is what I call the "J" hook style. There was one car with this style in Georgia, and many pop up in Cali. It is a narrower width, but taller height. The legs have J shaped hooks on the legs versus the more commonly knocked off style that has what I call "check mark" shaped legs.

Anyway, that bar is not heavy at all. It is made from very thin gauge steel and smaller diameter tubes with thinner walls. I doubt it would hold up to much, but being about half the weight of the other style, I can see why they chose to use them on some of the cars.

[keith88]

I like my push bar from smith brothers it sturdier than i thought it would be, it bolts to the bumper where the brackets are for the bumper.  Seems to me  if you hit something your going to have more problems than a bent bumper and messed up valance any way.

[Brock Lee]

It is impossible to think of every scenario. My car was damaged while being transported. The truck jack-knifed and the passenger side corner went into the rear quarter of the truck hauling it. I lost my passenger side fender, valence, and small push bar. The bar stopped the damage from making its way into the center of the grille and all of the hood. Insurance was eager to pay, but at that time all of those parts were unavailable. It took 6 months to find a decent fender. If I had to find all of it, it would have been a lot longer. Today I guess you don't have to worry about finding parts, so it isn't that big a concern. I was more upset I lost original to the car sheetmetal. In a time where most Chargers have everything changed, mine was a little more stock than usual. Not anymore.

[Captain D]

I had called Smith Bros. today and they noted that the wide push-bar is 38lbs. I then asked about it being made in aluminum - total price would be about an astonishingly $1,000. They also noted that, although the wide bars are 38lbs., the steel isn't overly thick but with it being rather on the big size - that accounts for the weight. I like the wide bars, but the narrower version is just so much easier to maintain.

[Dino]

Have one 3D printed.  The resin should make it light enough.  It may cost a bit though.   

[Mike DC]

I had called Smith Bros. today and they noted that the wide push-bar is 38lbs. I then asked about it being made in aluminum - total price would be about an astonishingly $1,000. They also noted that, although the wide bars are 38lbs., the steel isn't overly thick but with it being rather on the big size - that accounts for the weight. I like the wide bars, but the narrower version is just so much easier to maintain.

Yes, the wide pushbar's weight is just the raw materials.  The side plates are 1/4" x 3" steel plate, a good 3+ feet of it on each side.  The round tubing would be sturdy enough at 1/8" thickness but each of the tubes is 3 feet long.  


As for $1000?  Nothing against the Smiths, but I would look into getting one fabricated locally before paying all that money for it.  It's a big item but there is nothing very unusual about the job.  Bring the fabricator enough templates/info/etc so he doesn't have to spend time designing the whole thing.  If he just has to cut pieces, clamp them in place, and weld them together, then the cost should stay within reason.  

[ht4spd307]

have it made from aluminum then powder coat it black best of both worlds

[Brock Lee]

I would guesstimate a wide bar at the average local machine shop made from aluminum and powder coated would probably run $300-400.

Here is a tip. Find the metal shop that makes the railings for commercial buildings in your area and pay them a visit. Look for the smaller ones that do it and go now. They are likely not busy right now and wont mind the side work. A push bar for those guys will be a breeze.

[Bronzedodge]

I'll 2nd that!  A fencing mfg should be able to do it.  Work takes me to various powder coating places here in the Mid-Atlantic.  A cut sheet or print of the brackets would be helpful to any production facility.

I'll be here soon:  http://herculescustomiron.com/

These nice folks do one-off powder coating.  The fab shop is a separate business.   Again, a print of the brackets would be needed.     http://www.aaglobal.com/  Ask for Lawrence and say his burner man sent you.

[Captain D]

Yeah, I had considered powder-coating a few seasons ago. However, the shops that I had chatted with noted that even though it is a tough coating, they couldn't guarantee that road chips wouldn't eventually show up. Hence, a waste of $200+. It would totally be a downer spending that much money only having to touch it up and it look kinda, 'eh.' With that being said, I then began using the 'Rust-Oleum High Performance Enamel' in gloss black. It dries fast and provides a strong protective coating / shell. I believe the last time I removed the narrow bar and shot it with color was 3 years ago. Remarkably, it still looks just as glossy and smooth as the day I applied it. And, it must be fairly tough for I can't find any chips. For $8 compared to $200, it was a great choice. Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-7578838-Professional-Performance-15-Ounce/dp/B000PIEWLA

As for the wide bar, I'd really like to go for it - I suppose I'm still debating, lol, 
Best regards,
Aaron

[Brock Lee]

Nobody is going to guarantee a finish. Except maybe Rhino lining. Powder coat holds up best. My current bar is going on 9 years old. The powder coat finish looks exactly like it the day I took it home.

[bull]

Interesting story I heard straight from the horse's mouth about this, as it relates to authenticity anyway. I live roughly 45 minutes from James and Bobby Smith and have been to their place on many occasions. They are good friends with the remaining stunt crew who worked on that show. One day while in California on business they both went to one of the studio sites to look around after being told by one of the crew members where they might look for "artifacts" from the show. They found the location where there once stood a small shop for the WB crew to work on cars but apparently there wasn't much left to see by then. James got to poking around in the nearby brush and found some metal pieces attached to a board I believe (I'm going by my sketchy memory here) but after it was all said and done they figured out they had found the original DOH wide push bumper jig used to build the push bumpers for the show. So aside from finding one that was made by the actual California crew you're probably not going to find a more authentic push bumper than one from the Smith Bros.

https://smithbros.myshopify.com/products/push-bar
https://smithbros.myshopify.com/products/general-lee-narrow-push-bar

[c00nhunterjoe]

Your car is too beautiful to weld a bar on. 

[Mike DC]

Interesting story I heard straight from the horse's mouth about this, as it relates to authenticity anyway. I live roughly 45 minutes from James and Bobby Smith and have been to their place on many occasions. They are good friends with the remaining stunt crew who worked on that show. One day while in California on business they both went to one of the studio sites to look around after being told by one of the crew members where they might look for "artifacts" from the show. They found the location where there once stood a small shop for the WB crew to work on cars but apparently there wasn't much left to see by then. James got to poking around in the nearby brush and found some metal pieces attached to a board I believe (I'm going by my sketchy memory here) but after it was all said and done they figured out they had found the original DOH wide push bumper jig used to build the push bumpers for the show. So aside from finding one that was made by the actual California crew you're probably not going to find a more authentic push bumper than one from the Smith Bros.

All true.  



Those pushbars were made in big numbers though.  I've measured some differences in the ones on the surviving TV-series GLs.  The side plates seem consistent but the placement of the upper tubes varied a little.