Extreme negative camber

[Kern Dog]

There are no other upper control arms from another model that are close enough to fit except 1962-72 B body cars. A body arms are too narrow at the mounting points. The 73-78 b body used a different UCA.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ok so it's simple science. Does this uca look bad? Sides are straight. No kinks or wrinkles. Maybe wrong part?

It seems simple until you look at everything and don't see anything wrong. Dino looked it over again today and still can't figure out that if it has suffered some kind of damage why it doesn't easily show somewhere. I will try to get it in the air this weekend, take some measurements and pull the wheel to look over the mounting points again.

Yes, it is simple science. No, you may not be able to jack it up and visibly see the problem. You need this car on an alignment rack and take the measurements with the machine, not eyeball it on a jack. If all of the components are correct and not damaged as it appears, then you are left with 1 of 2 options- 1: the frame is bent and an alignment rack can help show this. Or 2: the caster camber shims are adjusted improperly and the alignment rack will let you set it properly as well. Bottom line: put it on a rack.

[71 SE3834V]

Ok so it's simple science. Does this uca look bad? Sides are straight. No kinks or wrinkles. Maybe wrong part?

It seems simple until you look at everything and don't see anything wrong. Dino looked it over again today and still can't figure out that if it has suffered some kind of damage why it doesn't easily show somewhere. I will try to get it in the air this weekend, take some measurements and pull the wheel to look over the mounting points again.

By the picture the camber adjustment bolt in the upper control arm looks to be turned all the way in. IF IT IS  you can loosen the nut and turn or "roll" the bolt 180* out and if the the back one the same way do it too. tighten the nuts put the wheel on and set the car on its wheels and see if it made a difference.

That pic is not current. That was a pic I took as I was putting things but together back in 2011. I set the cam bolts to try to get the maximum positive camber once I was done. If you look in the above pic I took just the other day you can see, behind the blue shock the bolt is maxed outward.

I will be checking the current status of the cam bolts and take some pics of the mounting points once I get the wheels off this weekend as I don't really know where the shop left them if they moved them at all. I just happened to catch that one in the picture.

[71 SE3834V]

Ok so it's simple science. Does this uca look bad? Sides are straight. No kinks or wrinkles. Maybe wrong part?

It seems simple until you look at everything and don't see anything wrong. Dino looked it over again today and still can't figure out that if it has suffered some kind of damage why it doesn't easily show somewhere. I will try to get it in the air this weekend, take some measurements and pull the wheel to look over the mounting points again.

Yes, it is simple science. No, you may not be able to jack it up and visibly see the problem. You need this car on an alignment rack and take the measurements with the machine, not eyeball it on a jack. If all of the components are correct and not damaged as it appears, then you are left with 1 of 2 options- 1: the frame is bent and an alignment rack can help show this. Or 2: the caster camber shims are adjusted improperly and the alignment rack will let you set it properly as well. Bottom line: put it on a rack.

It was put on a rack back in 2011 (see post #17). Maybe I need to find a better shop that knows old Mopars.

[c00nhunterjoe]

The pic with the blue shock has it set negative....

[71 SE3834V]

The pic with the blue shock has it set negative....

Huh??

The bolt is in it's out most position. This would move the uca out to the maximum positive position it would go although in my situation it's still a negative camber.
I was just told in post #24 to turn the bolt 180* from it's inner position in the old pic to try to correct the problem. 180* from the inner position would be maximum out which is where it is currently at.
What am I missing?

[c00nhunterjoe]

I just scrolled back through all the pics, in each one, the cams are in different positions so i will stick with my same suggestion. Stop guessing and put it on a rack.

[71 SE3834V]

Is the bolt currently in the negative or positive position?
Yes putting it on a rack is a good suggestion but you're not following what I've stated.

The first pic of the lca is a moot point since it is was an optical illusion resulting from it hanging in the air.
The pic of the uca is an old pic before the front end was finished and adjusted. This was shown just to show the uca looked good.
The car was put on an alignment rack when the front end was finished in 2011 but was probably gone over by someone who knows nothing about old Mopars.
The current pics showing the blue shocks is the state in which it is in now sitting on the ground.
I am going to measure some parts to confirm whether the parts are correct since some suggested that they are incorrect. Putting it on a rack w/the wrong parts would be silly.
I will also confirm what position the rear adjusting bolt is in since I couldn't get my head in there to see. I didn't think to use the camera.
I will do some rough measuring of the frame just to try to get a lead on what is wrong and gather as much info as I can.
When I am convinced all the parts are correct I will search for a frame shop that is knowledgeable of old Mopars.

I have been given 3 opinions, from people who have seen the car in person, that if the negative lean of the wheel was a result of damage there is usually other obvious signs that show up. I am trying to eliminate all other possibilities first before putting it BACK on a rack.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Is the bolt currently in the negative or positive position?
Yes putting it on a rack is a good suggestion but you're not following what I've stated.

The first pic of the lca is a moot point since it is was an optical illusion resulting from it hanging in the air.
The pic of the uca is an old pic before the front end was finished and adjusted. This was shown just to show the uca looked good.
The car was put on an alignment rack when the front end was finished in 2011 but was probably gone over by someone who knows nothing about old Mopars.
The current pics showing the blue shocks is the state in which it is in now sitting on the ground.
I am going to measure some parts to confirm whether the parts are correct since some suggested that they are incorrect. Putting it on a rack w/the wrong parts would be silly.
I will also confirm what position the rear adjusting bolt is in since I couldn't get my head in there to see. I didn't think to use the camera.
I will do some rough measuring of the frame just to try to get a lead on what is wrong and gather as much info as I can.
When I am convinced all the parts are correct I will search for a frame shop that is knowledgeable of old Mopars.

I have been given 3 opinions, from people who have seen the car in person, that if the negative lean of the wheel was a result of damage there is usually other obvious signs that show up. I am trying to eliminate all other possibilities first before putting it BACK on a rack.

Youre not following what im saying. If this has been a problem since 2011, and you still wont put it on another alignment rack and feel that jack stands, your thumb, a squinched eye and a tape measure are still the fix, then my words fall on deaf ears. I bid you good luck in your endeavors as i am walking away from this conversation.

[71 SE3834V]

Youre not following what im saying. If this has been a problem since 2011, and you still wont put it on another alignment rack and feel that jack stands, your thumb, a squinched eye and a tape measure are still the fix, then my words fall on deaf ears. I bid you good luck in your endeavors as i am walking away from this conversation.

Is the bolt currently in the negative or positive position?
Yes putting it on a rack is a good suggestion but you're not following what I've stated.

The first pic of the lca is a moot point since it is was an optical illusion resulting from it hanging in the air.
The pic of the uca is an old pic before the front end was finished and adjusted. This was shown just to show the uca looked good.
The car was put on an alignment rack when the front end was finished in 2011 but was probably gone over by someone who knows nothing about old Mopars.
The current pics showing the blue shocks is the state in which it is in now sitting on the ground.
I am going to measure some parts to confirm whether the parts are correct since some suggested that they are incorrect. Putting it on a rack w/the wrong parts would be silly.
I will also confirm what position the rear adjusting bolt is in since I couldn't get my head in there to see. I didn't think to use the camera.
I will do some rough measuring of the frame just to try to get a lead on what is wrong and gather as much info as I can.
When I am convinced all the parts are correct I will search for a frame shop that is knowledgeable of old Mopars.

I have been given 3 opinions, from people who have seen the car in person, that if the negative lean of the wheel was a result of damage there is usually other obvious signs that show up. I am trying to eliminate all other possibilities first before putting it BACK on a rack.

Where in the world did you get the "won't" put it on a rack (see above)?
Where has it been said that I'm trying to fix this problem myself (again see above)?

Again, I've stated I'm trying to determine if the parts are correct and they are sound. Any first year auto tech knows you can't align it until the parts are correct and sound. If I had just put it on a rack as you suggested I would know nothing other than what the tech tells me. I choose to be an educated consumer. Thanks to some suggestions by others via PM I have crawled under the car, visually inspected parts and took some measurements. Because of this I can now bring some vital information to the shop that I choose. I know a heck of a lot more about this car than I knew back in 2012 and if I knew then what I know now things might have been different.

Geez, I remember being told last year "If you aren't willing to do what needs to be done you shouldn't own one of these cars." Now I'm told don't do the work yourself. Take it somewhere and let someone else tell you what's wrong and hope that the parts on the car are correct or they'll charge you the "checkout" fee and send you back home.

No big loss you bowing out of this conversation as you haven't brought much to it other than "put it on a rack". Ya might have at least suggested I needed to find a shop that knows old Mopars. That would have been more helpful.
Don't let the screen door....
Oh! and you never did answer the question of whether the bolt behind the blue shock was set in the negative or positive position. Don't worry. Everyone's wrong once in a while. You can admit it. No one will think any less of you.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you think that you need an "old mopar specialty" shop to do an alignment, then you do know nothing. Alignments havnt changed, most modern cars and even trucks use the same style cams that mopar used in the 60s. There is no "classic mopar expert" needed to do an alignment. Hell, my 2006 silverado has the exact same alignment method as the 60s mopars, literally exact.
  Fwiw, yes, the 1 cam that is visible in your blue shock picture is maxed out and i even stated earlier that i got mixed up because you posted several pictures.
   I didnt say dump your car in a shop and walk away. I said put it on the rack and see whats wrong/ bent/damaged. Any 1st year auto tech also knows that if you have a problem like yours, the alignment rack will help pinpoint the issue. And any alignment guy should take 1 look at your car in the parking lot and know there is a problem. But you are right, my years setting up front ends on 160 mph race cars, lifted trucks and lowered imports means nothing.

*****After sitting back and thinking a while; i wish to apologize. I can see how i came across harsh in my replies and while that was partially intended, it was not meant to be demeaning or arrogant. I have been doing front ends a long time and my point is that putting the car on the alignment rack for measurement purposes (not just trying to line your car up in its current state) is the best and most effective way to find your problem. You can only do so much laying on an unlevel driveway using a tape measure and jacks. Dont forget that every time you jack up a corner of the car, the whole frame twists, throwing your measurements off.... *******

[Slider]

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents here as I had the exact same issue with my 69 Charger R/T

The front suspension when I bought the car was worn out badly when I bought it. All the bushings were a mess and the front end felt very loose. The camber was WAY off and the inside of the tires were worn quite a bit compared to the outside. Checked and adjusted the toe to get it closer than it was while I waited for the Energy Suspension master bushing set to come in. That just made the car super scary to drive. Toed it back out and it was better but I parked it anyway after one time on the highway I hit a small bump and the car made a sharp right turn on its own!

While installing all the new bushings I noticed a very bad situation. The tube welded into the K member to support the pivot shaft had become unglued from the K member. The end of the Pivot Shaft is what sits in this tube. It was wobbling around in the K member by over 1/2". Made a thick washer to fill the gap and welded the tube back into place. The other side had some cracking around the same tube but wasn't as bad. Cleaned it up, welded the cracks and overlaid a washer welding it into place to reinforce it.

After all the repairs were done, the bushing kit installed and a FULL alignment done, the car now drives like brand new. Be sure to ask the alignment shop to do a complete alignment. Some shops now set toe and call it done as they have a cheap version of an alignment advertised and will only do toe for that price.

Hope this helps!