Working on Your Own Car Illegal?

[wingcar]

Seriously......

GM, Ford, and Others Want to Make Working on Your Own Car Illegal

Jeff Perez
April 22, 2015

One of the inherent rights of owning a vehicle is the ability to get on ones backside — a wrench in one hand and a grease rag in the other, and just tinker to your little heart's desire. Since the vehicle was invented, it's been an important facet within the community of gearheads.

General Motors — the same company responsible for 87 deaths related to faulty ignition switches, wants to take that right away from you citing safety and security issues, along with a few other big names.

It's called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). It's been around since 2000 and started as anti-Internet piracy legislation. But automakers want to use it to try and make working on your own car illegal. Yes, illegal. The general premise is that unlike cars of the past, today's vehicles are so advanced and use such a large amount of software and coding in their general makeup, altering said code could be dangerous and possibly even malicious.
Listing the vehicle as a "mobile computing device," the law would hypothetically protect automakers from pesky owners looking to alter any sort of technology in the vehicle that relates to the on board computer. Flashing your ECU would be a big no no, which could also lead to all sorts of problems for aftermarket shops.

What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, don't actually own your car. Rather, you're sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology.  If it sounds ridiculous— it is.  But it gets even more ludicrous.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Deere argued that "letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system."

That's right— pirating music. Through a tractor.

[Lennard]

  Good luck with that one! If I buy something, it's mine and I can do whatever I want with it...end of story.

[SRT-440]

I read somewhere that in the future, manufacturers will secure the engine, trans, and computer..literally under lock and key..you open the hood and just see black boxes.

I think it's bs personally...but the majority of the public doesn't care and don't want to modify them. They can do whatever they want...the problem is gonna start if they try and tell me I can't work on my classic cars. 

[wingcar]

Join SEMA's Action Network to help things like this from happening.  It's free and they will keep you informed on legislation that our leaders might be trying to pass..... 

[RallyeMike]

Cars are so complicated that we are virtually there anyhow. How many people actually have the tools and ability to modify the drive systems and electronics of any new vehicle?

That said, this is'nt going anywhere right now. Maybe someday in the future when cars drive themselves, then this could become a reality.

[polywideblock]

                       scumbag lawyers getting involved in this is a sure thing , kiss your car working rights goodbye  .

      just go and TRY to  find your favourite OLD movie on YouTube now    everything has been deleted because of this DMCA crap    

[myk]

Does any of this surprise you, guys?  Many shops/dealers have taken the position that if you so much as modify your car in any way that it's grounds to void your warranty and whatever guarantees your vehicle would normally have, even if the modification has little to no bearing on the warranty issue at hand.  This is just the next step in their efforts to have us completely dependant on their services...

[Ponch ®]

      just go and TRY to  find your favourite OLD movie on YouTube now    everything has been deleted because of this DMCA crap    

yeah, and with good reason. If I was creative person (musician, film maker, comic book artist) I wouldn't want some asshole giving away my work for free. If you want to watch a movie, pay for it...just people used to "in the good old days" even before VCRs and cassettes.

All extremes are bad.

- Soon to be Scumbag Lawyer

[ws23rt]

Another law to protect us from ourselves.

Hmm--so I'm in my driveway and the hood is up on my car (I picked the lock). My neighbor that doesn't like my old cars that use gasoline is watching and is taking a video. He calls the cops and they arrest me for tampering with my car. ---I am guilty and now have a criminal record.---Damn I new it was wrong. My bad

If I had let's say changed my own oil and had not been seen doing it. I later sold the car (as is) and the new owner and his CSI investigators found evidence of an undocumented oil change. Would the new law put me at risk for any issues related to the car?

The whole idea of this points out a huge legal mess potential and brings many questions.  Another example-- would a used car dealer be obliged to return a tampered with car to some kind of certification that makes it sellable?

[polywideblock]

      just go and TRY to  find your favourite OLD movie on YouTube now    everything has been deleted because of this DMCA crap    

yeah, and with good reason. If I was creative person (musician, film maker, comic book artist) I wouldn't want some asshole giving away my work for free. If you want to watch a movie, pay for it...just people used to "in the good old days" even before VCRs and cassettes.

All extremes are bad.

- Soon to be Scumbag Lawyer

just speaking for experience cost me 18k to save 20 k in the settlement   

 so does this mean that movies that were only on youtube e.g. not even a vhs tape for sale on ebag  will suddenly start appearing on DVD ?  I think not !

  I don't mind paying for something I want    

but just try to find these old movies anywhere   youtube was the only avenue and that's gone to  now ,sux totally  

[Baldwinvette77]

As far as i can tell from working on these cars for a living, Chevys today are just as shitty as chevys from 10 years ago, so i dont quite know what theyre on about

[Mike DC]

 
They would never be able to enforce this.  You aren't leasing a product from a carmaker under a contract, you are buying it from them.


But it does worry me when these ideas get batted around. 

The movie/music industry also wishes they could control what the consumers do with their products they sell, along similar lines.  That is a tall load of bullshit too.  (Yes I respect copyright principles.  But that's not the issue here.)

[Ghoste]

I would never say never.  Automakers are constantly on the lookout for new profit centers and they've wanted the hoods locked down since the 70's to try and force you to go to the dealer to have any work done on it.  Fortunately being in a largely free society has prevented that but all it takes is a single zealot to come up with a way to trigger a car bomb using the onboard computers (maybe its goes off at a certain speed, maybe its based on a geographic position established through on board nav) and that's it.  Or maybe someone in the EPA wants it to happen.  Even as ludicrous as John Deeres claims sound, they are appealing to another industry for help with that claim and like the automakers, its an industry starving for revenue sources to maintain their personal billions.
Is it likely in the short term?  Probably not, but to say never?  This is about money.

[LaOtto70Charger]

Don't forget about the liability aspects though.  Just think of the potential hazards when people modify the codes of their throttle and brake by wire controlled cars.  Toyota had a bad enough issue but imagine when someone is missing around with the computer controls of a Hellcat challenger to get even more hp by changing fuel maps.  All of a sudden brakes stop working or something.

[Silver R/T]

Never been a fan of John Deere, there are better built tractors out there imo.

[Mike DC]

            
In theory there are liability issues with putting Wilwood discs on a 50yo car, too.  It would be a change in the way we do things to make this stuff illegal.  

It's really not the OEMs' business so much as the state govts that license the cars.  They could fix it so the OEMs have to sign off on a car's condition before they will give it a legal inspection.   But that would put a helluva lot of people out of transportation for reasons other than hot-rodding.  

I'm not saying they cannot outlaw hot-rodding.  But it would take some much bigger changes than it sounds like on the surface.  It's probably decades away if it happens.

[Ghoste]

I hope you're right Mike.  Actually I hope you're right that it will never happen.

[TexasStroker]

World seems to move further towards hell all the time.

The real kicker here is that I've yet to find a dealership that has techs that can actually FIX any significant problems and routinely screw up basic maintenance like oil changes by making elementary mistakes...and they do all this with the coveted and touted technology at their disposal.  One would think that you would first have a work force capable of providing exclusive service before trying to corner it.

Warranties really mean nothing to me, whoever it is and whatever it is on, there is always some way they try to weasel out...The tactic of course being to provide unnecessary, costly "fixes" and simultaneously disinterest the consumer from fighting, or maintaining a consistent state of interest to push them to do what they should be doing.  This applies to all aspects of life.  Those who truly see things through to the finish are few and far between.

Modern cars really aren't all that different than old cars...no one is born knowing how to set valve lash, or dial in a carb...you have to learn how.  Same goes with the new technology.  A lot of older people don't want to learn new technology and a lot of younger people don't care to learn old technology.  I find equal fault with both mindsets.  I find even greater fault with lobbying for legislation to dictate what everyone else does.

[500Jon]

Hi Real People,

99% of the people in the world, that drive cars, just DRIVE them!
They don't give a second thought about fixing them or even checking the tyres, etc.!!!

50 year old cars and their owners are DINOSAURS in the eyes the Modern folks.

Long Live DINOSAURS, I say...

Oh yes, SERVICING at a Main Dealer, just an excuse to remove $500 outta your wallet, without them even looking at your CAR!!!

[el dub]

Just wait till the on board computer tells the police when your speeding.

[500Jon]

Too late already!

Roadside cameras will clock your route anytime you go out on a trip.
They know where you go everyday, at what time and how long it took you.
Certain routes have tolls which know you have been there and will send a bill through to your phone.
No need to display tax for road use as its all on file, if you drive without tax and insurance you will be fined.
If you aren't caught whilst driving, you will receive a fine by post.
Get caught without a current SMOG(ministry test) and you car will be crushed.

That's Euro law now, coming to you all sometime soon...
New cars will be fitted with Police activated immobilisers too...
Being a crook is getting well hard these days lol.

Only good news is THE PRISONS ARE FULL...

[Tilar]

Ohio passed a law the end of last year that basically does away with roadside and red light cameras. Cities and towns can still have them but they have to be manned by a police officer anytime it is active so they can witness the speeder.