Why tires can be so expensive, which tires to get for your car

[green69rt]

I didn't know how to title this thread but wanted to throw some info out about what tires to buy for a car.  I'll start by talking about my wife's Acura.

Her Acura TL has a 160 MPH speedometer on it .  I don't think we've ever driven it over 100 MPH.

The first time I needed to get new tires I took it in and the shop said $300/tire and I kind of choked.  I asked why and he said that the stock tires were Z-rated (I think.)  Anyway I asked why and he said it matches the cars speed capability.  Anyway I asked what the cost was of a H rated tire and he quoted $135 so that's what we run now.   That's still rated for up to 130 MPH, no change in handling or braking.

I know a woman coworker that had a 300ZX and always bought the original tires for about $500/tire.  I told her about my experience since she complained that her tires only lasted about 10,000 miles.   I couldn't get her to change so didn't push it.

I wonder if anyone else ran into this issue?

[Lennard]

I wonder what your insurance company does if you get in an accident with lower rated tires on the car than recommended by the manufacturer.

[FJMG]

Yup, srt8, I decided to downgrade the speed rating also to save money....low profile tires.

Well after 8000 miles they developed a vibration, was told I was too "enthusiastic" on the cloverleafs and if I was to continue cornering a 4200# car in such a manner then I should consider a tire designed for that. I was nowhere near the 140 mph that the tire is rated for.

There is also a load rating along with the speed rating so I found some hankooks with the required Y (185 mph) rating and they were quite a bit less money than the oem Goodyear, pirelli etc.

7000 miles so far so good.

I am sure your Acura is lighter than a charger and if you do not go crazy around a cloverleaf I think I would not tell the difference in handling.

[Troy]

It's not just about the speed you plan to travel. The sidewall stiffness, tread pattern, and rubber compound (sticky and soft for example) are typically matched to the speed rating. Going with a lower rated tire could have unintended consequences. I guess I'm odd in that I generally upgrade tires from stock - mostly for noise reasons but extra performance isn't a bad side effect. The last several sets I've bought have lasted far longer than the factory supplied tires.

I also think that running a tire that doesn't meet the specifications on the sticker inside the door jamb opens you up to legal liability.

Troy

[green69rt]

If I have to keep the same tire that is specified on the door sticker for legal reasons then I would bet that every single one of us on this forum need to put those little F70-14 tires back on their car, I also bet that almost none will.  I know we mostly don't have door stickers but somebody could read a owners manual and find the same info. 

I can also see upgrading your tires if that's your concern, people do it all the time.    But when we HAVE TO buy expensive hi speed tires to satisfy the auto manufacturers desire to avoid legal problem, I object.   As always it's how much safety margin is enough?   H rated is up to 130 MPH.   Still way over anything the Acura will be driven.   Finally if I am driving fast and have an accident the tire rating will be the least of my worries.   I suspect some would say "what if the tire is the cause"  but if I'm driving under the rated limit and the tire fails then that's the manufacturer's liability.  Besides I've seen tires fail for reason other than bad construction and there's no way to prevent that.  I buy the best tires I can find, I think Michelin are as good as any and never had one fail for any reason except wear or road hazard.


Got kind of long winded there, sorry, but still a good discussion.

[Mopar Nut]

If I have to keep the same tire that is specified on the door sticker for legal reasons then I would bet that every single one of us on this forum need to put those little F70-14 tires back on their car, I also bet that almost none will.  I know we mostly don't have door stickers but somebody could read a owners manual and find the same info.  

I can also see upgrading your tires if that's your concern, people do it all the time.    But when we HAVE TO buy expensive hi speed tires to satisfy the auto manufacturers desire to avoid legal problem, I object.   As always it's how much safety margin is enough?   H rated is up to 130 MPH.   Still way over anything the Acura will be driven.   Finally if I am driving fast and have an accident the tire rating will be the least of my worries.   I suspect some would say "what if the tire is the cause"  but if I'm driving under the rated limit and the tire fails then that's the manufacturer's liability.  Besides I've seen tires fail for reason other than bad construction and there's no way to prevent that.  I buy the best tires I can find, I think Michelin are as good as any and never had one fail for any reason except wear or road hazard.


Got kind of long winded there, sorry, but still a good discussion.

I never get into accidents, but when my wife was in some (no fault of hers), no insurance co. has ever asked what tires she was using.

[Homerr]

Wasn't the 300ZX, along with the Acura NSX, a car that had a large toe out setting on the rear tires and toe in on the front to increase handling at the cost of the tires?  I think it was par for the course on those to get 10k miles.

[RallyeMike]

Perhaps the beter question to be answered is if you are more suited to the financial maintainence requirements of Honda's or Kia's.

[oldcarnut]

I'll be in that tire selection mode soon.  My 2010 Chally SRT has about 16k on it.  The back tires are 3/4 gone.  I got the car with 11k on it but the tires were pretty much wasted before I got it.  What I thought was mud on the tread in the car dealership pictures turned out to be rolled up potato chip shape tire rubber when it was loaded off the truck. Took some miles of driving to clean it off smooth again.  I guess either the owner before trade in or somebody test driving or working there took it for a few or more burnouts   and donuts before it was advertised.  Anyway I don't really care for the Goodyear F1 Eagles that came on them as they don't seem to grip to well to me.  Break loose pretty easy even unintentionally. They're worse in colder weather as they are considered summer tires.  I'd like to get something else but I doubt I'll be needing a Z-Rated tires either to max out.

[Lord Warlock]

I had a rude awakening in the 90s when I drove my stealth twin turbo (1991), it used 245/45 zr17's and back then they were 400 apiece but then again that car could and did go over 165 stock, I cheaped out and got a set of Nitto's instead same rating and size for about 275 apiece, now I can get them for 110 or less, my new challenger r/t on 20s wasn't that bad but I still put Nitto Motivos on it, not a Z rated tire.  I doubt the insurance company cares what tires you use as long as you don't put 13s on a car designed for 20s, or 26's on a car designed for 14s.

I also had a shock when I put my first clutch in the stealth, my mustangs used 200 dollar clutch jobs, the stealth cost 1200.  The 60k service on the stealth was 1500.

[myk]

Whatever you do, don't listen to the people working at the tire place.  Make your own informed decision...

[Troy]

After a quick bit of research... the speed rating isn't required by Federal Law. It denotes the maximum sustained speed of the tire (with a safety factor included I'm sure). Having said that, several other characteristics of the tires are often related to the speed rating. The load rating is probably the one that opens you up to the most liability. The ones that matter when buying are probably treadwear and possibly temperature.

Perhaps the beter question to be answered is if you are more suited to the financial maintainence requirements of Honda's or Kia's.

I have a set of $800 tires on my Kia. They are quieter, handle better in the snow, and have lasted nearly twice as long as the OE tires and still have about half their tread. For a car I depend on daily to get to work (but I don't want to throw money at) it's perfect. If I have to sit at a tire store on a regular basis it better be for my "performance" related toys.

Troy

[HPP]

Kinda comes down to what do you want to know about the specifics of making your car work/live/last so you can make better decisions on its maintenance vs taking the word of the guy at the counter of the local parts/tire/service center.

[lloyd3]

What the tire guy knows can be pretty limited. I was recently in Costco for a set of tires and got quite the education on what I had been running for almost 4-years.  What I actually wanted (and what they had), they wouldn't sell me because it wasn't right for the weight of my vehicle. It was a much nicer version of the size I already had. They insisted on a set that met the weight needs of my SUV, but those had to be ordered.  I got pissed and left to see what the competition had.  The competition didn't have what I wanted, and didn't seem to have a clue about the weight issue. They were also much more expensive (30%). In the end, I had Costco order the tires and put them on.  The improvements in handling and ride were noticeable immediately. No more "bargain" tires for me (at least not on the family vehicles).  Costco plays strictly by the book (or the computer in this case) because they don't want any liability issues.  Since I'm getting premium Michelins for the price of Big "O's", I'm all in.

[odcics2]

Michelin.     

[stripedelete]

  Costco plays strictly by the book (or the computer in this case) because they don't want any liability issues. 

I had Lloyd3's experience with Goodyear.   I run SUV tires ( non LT)  on my 3/4 Silverado to soften the ride. 
Goodyear said they wouldn't mount them on the truck, but, I could bring in the rims.

So, if your concerned about liability you can use a reputable tire chain as a barometer.  I'm using reputable loosely.
I think Tire Rack will do the same if you enter your make and model.

[keith88]

I have cooper cobras on mine cost $250 for all 4 Work and ride great.....Its a street car not a race car.

[lloyd3]

I loved Coopers when I was in my 20s.  Didn't they make 60 and 70 series "Road Stars"? Affordable and pretty decent tires for muscle cars then.  The guy I used to buy them off of had a dinky little operation on the south side of Oil City, PA, on the road to Cranberry, almost out of his home. He stored the "new" tires in a old truck box beside the house/business. Talk about low overhead. I'd spread rubber all over the country in my '70 Super Bee and then go back for more. I've got some on my 4X4 truck now and they're ok, but nothing special or even cheap about them.  Need to start buying tires again from another "low-overhead" operation to see if the savings are still there.

[Cooter]

I wonder what your insurance company does if you get in an accident with lower rated tires on the car than recommended by the manufacturer.

Not only that, but in states where state inspection is required, one cannot "opt out" of those expensive tires.
with Google, the expensive tire prices shouldn't even be a factor. But, there are those thst buy the vehicles with the stupid 20" rims (factory) and wanna complain when comes due for tires.

The harder the carcass, the softer the tread. Not gonna last. Don't even get me started on the canyon carvers that don't rotate their tires, then whine when that 50 mile 'warranty' is voided......

[green69rt]

Texas does require a safety inspection.  I looked at the web site and tried to find out if tire rating is checked, no luck.   Maybe other states look but I've lived in 6 states long enough to need an inspection and was never called due to tire specs, and I've always fooled around with my tire sizes and ratings.  Maybe other states are different.

Also, in the few accidents that involved my cars, I was never asked about tires.   Maybe because the accidents were all small time "fender benders".   I wonder if anyone has ever gotten called on the tire specification,  I wonder if lawyers are smart enough to realize the diff?

That said, somebody came up with a comment about load rating.  Never thought about it but checked and the load rating doesn't necessarily change with speed rating.   So maybe that's something to watch.

I brought this subject up because I am amazed that one step of speed rating could change the cost of a tire by 100% or more.   I understand that there is some more testing involved (they don't test every tire ) and I understand that the construction and materials may change some but when going from H to V (130 to 149 MPH) 100% seems a lot.  In my case it was 150%.   Anyway, there it is.

[Cooter]

That dumbass chick that rolled that Ford Exploder or whatever with Firestones on it? Now every vehicle is Fed. Mandated to have the tire monitors on em. All because of one dumbass who was too lazy to check her tire pressure.

Don't know bout you, but I never bet on the unknown. Sure, you may never have had tire speed ratings called into question YET, (it truly amazes me how many people bank on this) doesn't mean you might not be the 'sacrificial lamb' come time for it to become mainstream.

Don't know bout the rest of you, but I'm not one to buy a Ferrari and attempt to put the cheapest tires I can get on it, cause what were to happen if say your son/daughter were to "test" that 160 mph speedometer out and a tire failed? Yeah, you are the moron who put the incorrect tires on it, but that flies out the window as soon as you lose a loved one. People nowadays need others who know more, to "think for the idiot" cause as with many Americans, they will go for the dumbest move possible in order to save a buck then get themselves in a heap of trouble......