thank you for your service

[el dub]

Anarchy? Have you seen any anarchy after any riots. I am not condoning violence except as a last resort. Not unless we have no leverage. The leverage is the amount of people that will stand up against the shit. Like I said. White people or the middle income people will not stand up. That's why nothing important changes except at the slow pace of the vote. And that only happens after a trade off. How about I say you are not getting what I mean because of the way I say it. How bout you tell me what the govt has done for vets? For the middle income? For peace and security for the nation. Tell me in no uncertain terms what the fuck are we doing in the middle east. Besides wasting huge, huge amounts of money. Tell me why most of the rest of the world hates America. And don't say they are jealous of us.

[tcs69rt]

el dub, I was raised by a Vietnam vet who was wounded twice and had dog shit thrown at him when he returned to Philadelphia from Vietnam in the fall of 68. I joined the USAF in 86 and retired in 06. I built bombs and missiles for Uncle Sam's Flying Circus. When people tell me "Thanks for your service" I say "Thanks but please thank a Vietnam vet the next time you meet one."  I was in at a different time but know about our history and the way previous vets were treated. 



I always re-enlisted with my current bikes or cars. This pic was around 99 with my 70 Charger.

[twodko]

Anarchists are the very opportunists that rob, destroy and steal from businesses and people during the recent riots. They don't care what the message those who have been hurt or wronged are trying tell those who can address their grievances.
You've seen them in action....Ferguson, NY, Oakland, SF etc. The media, also opportunists who do nothing more than stir the pot, have been throwing it in our faces every day.
I understand your opinion on the conditional use of force and don't necessarily disagree. My point is that we are outgunned
figuratively and literally. I do share your frustration with the way things are I just don't have a viable solution(s) much less
suggestions as to how we as a nation proceed to change things without destroying what little is left of this country.
Its often very difficult to make one's self understood when their point of view is fogged with anger. I tell you this because I make a concerted effort to read between the lines to get the meaning of your side of this debate. I'm not perfect and can't always grasp your point and your argument is not always clear.
Constant, persistant "in the politicians faces" pressure is the most probable effective leverage we have now IMO.
True enough that the middle class can't or won't stand up and be counted because were all holding on with our fingertips.
I offer this not as an excuse but to point out its just the way it is. Shameful? Of course, but tell me what's the path to reconcile this national malaise? Do we burn the house down to make our collective point only to freeze in the snow?
You, I and the rest of us 99%'ers know that we must vote....always...... however that's not the tool American's have used to implement meaningful change FOR Americans for decades now. Big money calls the shots and have as long as I can remember. Also for as long as I can remember the middle class has always borne the brunt of supporting everybody else. The middle class writes the check for public housing assistance, food stamps, healthcare for the leeches among us etc. Certainly there will always be those who may need public assistance and I'm happy to pay my part but we also carry the weight of the bloodsuckers who know the middle class will provide their meal ticket. The government isn't going to do much to change this because then it will lose the big money that perpetuates the status quo. How do you propose this be changed? We, the middle class have been asking this very question for decades. This infuriates me to no end as it does you and the rest of us.
The USA has provided the means in concert with other western nations to maintain some semblance of peace and security for the entire world. Without the strength and wealth of this country bolstering the efforts of other countries this world would have slipped into chaos long ago. There is no question that this country is in dire financial straits. No question that our military has been slashed and squandered by the adventurism of the predecessors of the current administration. We found ourselves in the middle east for the same reason we found ourselves in the Nam. LIES. The millions of us that have stood up to serve know this painfully well. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the politicians have very short memories. It behooves them to do so, how else will they continue to be able to appease corporate America which feeds the military industrial base of what the US has become? We have allowed the government to sell America off wholesale. China and Japan own a huge percentage of this country because we have spent more and given more then we have to many other countries for their support and we are now financially insolvent. The government puts a happy face on it otherwise people would truly begin to see how desperate the situation really is. There's no debate here.....its reality. As to why America is held in such distain by the rest of the world is obvious to anyone who has any inkling of history. Simply put we have had our fingers in too many global pies when we had no business doing so in the first place. Case in point - Iran. They had no problem with us until the CIA decided that we needed to secure our oil needs by installing our own puppet as president of that nation. The guy before the Shah was well liked by the Iranian people because they were his only concern.
The puppet Shah was hated by the people who then began to hate the US which resulted in the hostage crisis and the tenuous relationship we have with them now. While I'm at it Israel is just as much of a criminal state as we are.
Imperial arrogance on an unprecedented scale.
As for us vets, its gotten a lot better for us now than its was following Vietnam because we have been pitching a fit about it and the country now holds us with the respect we didn't get back in the day. Nothing VA happens fast but the thousands coming back from the big sandbox are getting better care everyday.  

[el dub]

    

[el dub]

el dub, I was raised by a Vietnam vet who was wounded twice and had dog shit thrown at him when he returned to Philadelphia from Vietnam in the fall of 68. I joined the USAF in 86 and retired in 06. I built bombs and missiles for Uncle Sam's Flying Circus. When people tell me "Thanks for your service" I say "Thanks but please thank a Vietnam vet the next time you meet one."  I was in at a different time but know about our history and the way previous vets were treated. 



I always re-enlisted with my current bikes or cars. This pic was around 99 with my 70 Charger.

  You still deserve thanks along with your dad.   

[twodko]

el dub, I was raised by a Vietnam vet who was wounded twice and had dog shit thrown at him when he returned to Philadelphia from Vietnam in the fall of 68. I joined the USAF in 86 and retired in 06. I built bombs and missiles for Uncle Sam's Flying Circus. When people tell me "Thanks for your service" I say "Thanks but please thank a Vietnam vet the next time you meet one."  I was in at a different time but know about our history and the way previous vets were treated. 



I always re-enlisted with my current bikes or cars. This pic was around 99 with my 70 Charger.

Beautiful color of that car........despite it being a '70. 

[Patronus]

I never needed a thank you.
If any thing it's I who should thank the service.

[sunfire69]

Twodko
This statement isn't exactly correct
"These same people also do the jobs lazy Americans won't.".....in most cases it's not that legal Americans "won't" but the screwed up way our welfare system works...a person can make more money sitting at home doing nothing and getting various support benefits than then can working in a motel....plus if they take the job to help themselves they lose all or at least a large part of that support....it's a catch 22...if a single mother has kids and takes a minimum wage job she can't even begin to pay childcare and will lose most or all her support....state run child care has waiting list years long...the illegals don't have that problem they live in groups where one or two watch the kids  while the rest work at what ever they can find...they keep just enough to live and send the rest home....
I know people that sit and collect and have no intention of ever even looking for a job...and others who would take anything to start their climb out but can't afford to ....it's just backwards....and there are millions that just live to cheat the system....I have no idea how you could build a system that really helps people get back on their feet that would cost trillions and be cheated to death......

And I am also retired Air Force...I did what I did because I felt it was the right thing to do.....didn't look for nor expect the rest of the country to thank me....

[twodko]

Your clarification was a very accurate picture of a dilemma that
quite possibly has no viable solution.
Thank you, I stand corrected.  

In other news........

Those if us who worked/work in the Navy/Marine air community
forgive you for going Air Farce.    

[AKcharger]

I always re-enlisted with my current bikes or cars. This pic was around 99 with my 70 Charger.

Super cool idea, wish I would have thought of that!

[Mike DC]

Twodko
This statement isn't exactly correct
"These same people also do the jobs lazy Americans won't.".....in most cases it's not that legal Americans "won't" but the screwed up way our welfare system works...a person can make more money sitting at home doing nothing and getting various support benefits than then can working in a motel....plus if they take the job to help themselves they lose all or at least a large part of that support....it's a catch 22...if a single mother has kids and takes a minimum wage job she can't even begin to pay childcare and will lose most or all her support....state run child care has waiting list years long...the illegals don't have that problem they live in groups where one or two watch the kids  while the rest work at what ever they can find...they keep just enough to live and send the rest home....
I know people that sit and collect and have no intention of ever even looking for a job...and others who would take anything to start their climb out but can't afford to ....it's just backwards....and there are millions that just live to cheat the system....I have no idea how you could build a system that really helps people get back on their feet that would cost trillions and be cheated to death......

A lot of these things could be improved with a bunch of common-sense reforms.  We just have leaders rulers who don't care. 

Compared to the money the Corporate State is getting from taxpayers, what they hand out to the poor is chicken feed.  Too bad most of the poor & middle classes are too busy fighting each other for the scraps to realize this. 

[el dub]

Old news but true.

[twodko]

Israel comes to mind.........

[el dub]

    .   

[tcs69rt]

Okinawa 1995....when I still had hair! twodko and all the other non USAF service members here = The Navy, Marines and Army would not take me, I had one more brain cell so they let me enlist in "The Chair Force"  If any of you ever make your way to Colorado Springs I will buy you a beer 

[twodko]

Roger that!     

[ACUDANUT]

WOW, I can't believe this topic is not locked.  I served 28 years in the Marines and I am willing to go back and finish this war. Too bad we have a President who lacks any balls to end this madness in the middle east.  

  The war on terror is coming here. Lock and load.

[twodko]

Roger that too!

I fear for our children and especially their children.

I know it sounds racist but I believe it won't be just
radical Muslims posing a threat to the world........quite possibly
China will be a player as well.
Not all Muslims are radical nor are all Chinese but the geopolitical
arena isn't pretty.

Our mods, thank you guys, are as big a part of this as the rest of us are.
They have allowed us a great deal of latitude where political subjects are concerned.
El dub made some very salient points........not always presented well
but he got his points across. It was my pleasure and honor to debate the man.

Like so many of you here on the forum, I'll never have the chance
to have a beer with you. That's a shame.........well, except for Skip.
That poor guy is just broken and bent. 

[skip68]

You got that right big daddy.     

[tcs69rt]

We were known as Ammo troops in Uncle Sam's Flying Circus. Notorious for being the biggest drinkers, out drinking our pilots. If you have been to the Far East you can order "Ammo Bowls" in most bars. EOD came to us in the "Bomb Dump" to get what they needed for the range and sometimes we would transport it out there and blow shit up too. Cops also came to us to get all rounds. We stored and maintained Army, Navy and Marine small arms, grenades, RPG's, claymores, etc. I got to build bombs with the Marine and Naval Aircraft Ordinance guys while deployed and a lot at Nellis AFB where I ran bomb building operations. We always had beers after "humping bombs" in that desert heat all day!  Made a lot of good friends from other services and the "ball busting" was a lot of fun. The Marines had the sharpest uniforms hands down but the Air Force had the cooler haircuts, haha! Oh damn. Where are my side burns haha! Don't matter know, hair is all gone. 



And the "ball busting" never ends even in retired life! My last supervisor who is also retired, saw this pic on facebook. Rich posted that statement so I made it into a poster! What a great slam! 

[twodko]

Outstanding!

[Old Moparz]

I served in the Navy 70-76 as an aircraft wrench bender mostly
on museum pieces like scooters, Phantoms and especially Huey's.
Anybody remember the "Jesus nuts"? Nevermind, I digress.
Shitty time for vets and sad thankless homecomings.

The jackwagon politicians have very short memories..........
Vietnam-Iraq/Afganistan same same.

The difference now for vets is the national conscience feels
the guilt for treating us so badly back then and embraces
service members for who they are. Men and women in service
to thier country and it's people..........NOT the corporate government.
Those who have offered "thanks to me" since then, while thier intentions are good, doesn't mean squat.........
too little too late.

I would venture to say those coming back from the sandbox don't want
to be thanked either. They want and need help to be whole again.
They just want to come back to the world they left.
Unfortunately that world is gone for them like it was for us hence the awful fight to find
some semblance of what once was. Trying to reintegrate back into "home"
is often worse than being in the shit.
Of course there are veterans clinics and hospitals that are not stepping up
to do right by the returning vets but most if them are giving vets excellent care.
Again driven by national shame and guilt. It's still same same just a different generation.

Finally, in regard to the "spook" comment, it's the racist mentality like that that continues
to poison society and the minds of the young. If that's your attitude YOU are part of the problem
not part of the solution so stow it!  
Every president has pissed off large portions of society and always will.
If you are unable to respect the person because what they do/don't do,
respect the office.

Thanks for mentioning the ignorant racist comment, Twodko. 

I have friends, neighbors & family members who are "un-white" & when I see or hear knuckledraggers like eldub spew this kind of shit, it pisses me off. One thing for sure, by publicly posting it, it's easy to see what his true colors are.

[AKcharger]

[ACUDANUT]

Roger that too!

I fear for our children and especially their children.

I know it sounds racist but I believe it won't be just
radical Muslims posing a threat to the world........quite possibly
China will be a player as well.
Not all Muslims are radical nor are all Chinese but the geopolitical
arena isn't pretty.

Our mods, thank you guys, are as big a part of this as the rest of us are.
They have allowed us a great deal of latitude where political subjects are concerned.
El dub made some very salient points........not always presented well
but he got his points across. It was my pleasure and honor to debate the man.

Like so many of you here on the forum, I'll never have the chance
to have a beer with you. That's a shame.........well, except for Skip.
That poor guy is just broken and bent. 

  I believe this is going to end very bad.   Why, because those peace loving Muslims that we know now, will ultimately join their brothers (the bad half) in the name of Muhammad.  Mark my words.
Now Putin is flexing his arm and will take over the Ukraine without O'Bama blinking a eye.