I need a choke

[Dino]

My car is so hard to start when cold it's not funny.  It takes forever to get it going, followed by several tries to keep it running.  I need to sit there with my foot on the gas for a while until it idles on its own so I need a choke, badly.  Idle when warm is around 800 in drive.

I have an Edelbrock Performer intake with a Thermoquad and a valley pan with blocked crossover.  I can change the pan or drill some holes in it.  I'm not sure how these choke's mount and I don't think there's a provision on the Performer for it.  I do have the electric choke kit from my Edelbrock 1407 carb still if that can somehow be adapted.

So what are my options?  Is it feasible with this intake or am I going shopping again?   

[c00nhunterjoe]

You have other issues. If it is set up properly, you wont need a choke. Dont beleive me? Go to a race track and wander through the pits. Bet you wont find a choke plate on any of the race cars. They all fire right up and idle. I dont run one on my street car either and dont need it. Ive posted videos of cold starts in single digit temps.
    Your posts keep changing what you want to do because you are having issues, yet when questioned everything is in spec but could be better??? Your car has 2.90 gears and a 28" tall tire but you dont like how it smells or takes off? What do you expect it to do? Its 2 tons of car with an effective ratio of 2.60ish on those tires. And your 284 purple cam is not radical by any stretch. Even a stock cam will not give you what you want. i gather that you want a 45 year old daily driver to perform like a modern charger/challenger but using 45 year old technology based on all of your posts and responses. I have kept quiet up to this point but i will be the bearer of bad news. Its not gonna happen, and definatly not with your combination or planned changes.
   Im sure this reply will ruffle some feathers but several people have had similar posts and they go downhill fast. Im not trying to be harsh, im just trying to be straight to the point. You posted with your problem and every suggestion made by the members withthe knowledge to help was responded with "im not changing the gears, im not changing the carb" youve made up your mind that the cam is the problem so just start with that.

[Dino]

That's fair 

And no feathers ruffled here my friend, I appreciate your honesty.   

Yes  I do want my cake and eat it, absolutely I do, but I realize I can't.  Still I should be able to get closer to my goal.  I'm not trying to make it take off better, the car takes off fine, just at the wrong time.  I just took it out for an hour and it runs great but all the power is in the upper range.  If I can transfer some of that to the lower range I will be very happy.  I know very well that the tall gears make it a lot slower but I'm fine with that, I just want it to run as smooth as possible.  I am also convinced the cam is my main problem because that's what people have been telling me ever since I got this car.  I didn't think it's that radical either, I get vacuum of 15 at idle and the car runs fine but as I have been told there's better ones for my application.

To be clear, I know I sometimes sound unhappy with how the car runs but I'm not, I'm just trying to make it better.  I'm an asthmatic and so is my wife.  I sent her into a two hour long bronchospasm starting that thing up in the garage and that's unacceptable.

I think the gears and carb are fine because those parts are in line with what I want from the car.  I appreciate that people are steering me towards something else but I can only say so many times that I do not want to race but want to cruise.  I need the rest of the car to match gears and carb, not the other way around.  I had 3:55 gears and the car was way happier but I wasn't.  Those high rpms suck all the fun out of a trip for me.



To go back on topic, cold start is really terrible but hot start is instant.  I do hear a single pin when it fires though so timing is not ideal yet.  If no choke is needed then I guess I have quite a bit more tuning to do.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ok, then based on your "how to pick a cam" thread i am going to guess your compression is closer to 9:1 then suspected by the previous owner. I will suggest a bone stock cam for the engine mated to manifolds instead of headers. Use a 1/2" phenolic spacer to insulate that thermoquad as much as possible. Lets he clear here, no matter what kind of tuning you do, its still gonna stink out the tail pipes. So if asthma is a problem, i would also suggest adding a pair of universal catylitic converters to it and seal and insulate the trunk to stop as much fumes as possible. Adding a vintage air conditioning setup to get filtered air and a semi positive pressure cabin should help things. If all of that doesnt work, you will probably need to chnage to a more modern car.

[Dino]

Ok, then based on your "how to pick a cam" thread i am going to guess your compression is closer to 9:1 then suspected by the previous owner. I will suggest a bone stock cam for the engine mated to manifolds instead of headers. Use a 1/2" phenolic spacer to insulate that thermoquad as much as possible. Lets he clear here, no matter what kind of tuning you do, its still gonna stink out the tail pipes. So if asthma is a problem, i would also suggest adding a pair of universal catylitic converters to it and seal and insulate the trunk to stop as much fumes as possible. Adding a vintage air conditioning setup to get filtered air and a semi positive pressure cabin should help things. If all of that doesnt work, you will probably need to chnage to a more modern car.

LOL a modern drivetrain is always an option I suppose.   

But seriously, I realize that unless I do some really drastic changes, that smell will never fully go away.  We both accept that and we can take some of it, but there's a limit.  I can literally taste fuel if I get on it too much.  I also noticed that there's a wet spot on the passenger side header, cylinder 2 pipe way down near the collector so I'm going to have to investigate.  It smokes when hot and it sorta smells like oil, definitely nothing as strong as fuel.  Whatever it is it doesn't seem to want to burn off so I must have a valve cover leak on that end as well.     

The compression numbers didn't make much sense to me either.  Since this is a '71 engine I believe those would be close to stock numbers as well.  HP manifolds are on the list as well.   

I thought about catalytic converters but wasn't sure they'd work behind a 440.  Easy enough to try though.  Any specific recommendations or any universal will do?  I have stock tail pipes.

Seal the trunk...that's a very good idea.  I have nothing more than the original trunk divider so yeah there should be lots of room for improvement.   

When I was driving earlier I found that my A/C vacuum hose was still disconnected.  With that I had warm air flowing into the cab from the vents which didn't help the smell.  Once I had it hooked up again that issue got a whole lot better.  I do have A/C but haven't charged it yet.

Funny enough, smell also got less when I hooked up vacuum advance, ported.  The car seems to like it as well so I'll leave it on for now and do some more testing. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

I pulled my backseat, insulated the whole area under and behind the seat into the 1/4 wheelhouse area. I used expand foam and rtv to seal every single opening and seam in the trunk. It cut my roadnoise in half and nearly eliminated interior fumes with the windows down, which was my problem.
   You just said you get smells and odors from your vents. This is a clear cut sign of an exhaust leak and fumes coming from the engine compartment. You need to find and fix the issue under the hood/car.
    I can bog my car very bad by mashing it wide open at an idle yet there are no raw fuel odors as you are describing. You have something else going on.
    As to the cats, try whatever universal converter you can get locally that is your exhaust size. They are usually around $60 each. I fear they will be glowing red on your car though by the way you are describing raw fuel smells from the exhaust.

[Dino]

I pulled my backseat, insulated the whole area under and behind the seat into the 1/4 wheelhouse area. I used expand foam and rtv to seal every single opening and seam in the trunk. It cut my roadnoise in half and nearly eliminated interior fumes with the windows down, which was my problem.
   You just said you get smells and odors from your vents. This is a clear cut sign of an exhaust leak and fumes coming from the engine compartment. You need to find and fix the issue under the hood/car.
    I can bog my car very bad by mashing it wide open at an idle yet there are no raw fuel odors as you are describing. You have something else going on.
    As to the cats, try whatever universal converter you can get locally that is your exhaust size. They are usually around $60 each. I fear they will be glowing red on your car though by the way you are describing raw fuel smells from the exhaust.

Yeah I was just reading on cats and the heat is a bit scary.

Ok I'll see what I can find under the hood.  Since the valve covers still have minor leaks I need to pull those anyway.  I installed a Percy gasket on the driver's side a while back and still have to other so I'll do the passenger side.  Can't do any harm!

I think I'll do the same to my trunk.  I may be getting fumes in through that end and cutting down on road noise is always a bonus. It's not all that loud but there's definitely room for improvement.  Hey maybe it mask the slight whine the rear end makes, that would be a bonus.  Expanding foam huh?  Did you use the kind that goes between door jambs and doesn't expand with great force or the regular kind?

Thanks!   

[c00nhunterjoe]

I used the stuff that is 1" gap filler and used it lightly. Worked great.

[don duick]

maybe your float levels are too low, ? try adjusting the float level a bit higher might help with cold running and you wont need choke. works with a holley.

[Dino]

I used the stuff that is 1" gap filler and used it lightly. Worked great.

Perfect!  I'll give it a try.

maybe your float levels are too low, ? try adjusting the float level a bit higher might help with cold running and you wont need choke. works with a holley.

You know that's possible because when I initially installed the TQ, the floats were set too high so I dropped them quite a bit.  Maybe I dropped them too much.  With a cold engine, a turn of the key will wake up the engine and then immediately die.  Maybe the bowl is empty?  I also replaced my old fuel pump with a new Carter but I assumed that would be an improvement over the old stock 71 pump.  No issues once it runs though.