Cam and Head Recommendations, Please

[twenty mike mike]

I've spent a lot of time going through old posts and not only do those situations not apply very well to mine, some of the recommended grinds don't exist anymore. I welcome any suggestions.

I've removed 516 heads, a Holley Street Dominator and a Purple Shaft 3 bolt cam. The exhaust runners were opened up beyond any known exhaust gasket size and I have no idea what the PS was originally. Mic'ing the lobes resulted in numbers well below the published lift of any of the 3 bolt cams they advertise nowadays. The lobes don't look all that bad except the one for the fuel pump. Maybe it got a local grind that was "better" than MP's. I didn't spend enough time with the cam after I converted to 4 speed to compare it to anything.

So, I'm looking for a good head/cam combination.

The givens are a '69 Charger with a '68 440, non HP, 4 speed OD, 3.55 Sure Grip rear and 25.6 diameter tires. Power steering, but manual brakes, Classic Auto Air. The car will never see the drag strip. Well, unless it's in the parking lot.  3rd gear 1:1, 4th gear .80:1 for an effective 2.84:1 rear. Most of my driving will be between 2000 and 2500 RPM, since I use back roads a lot. Even on the freeway I'll be well below 3000 RPM. I have HP exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2 inch exhaust.

I'm going to use a Weiand 8009, mostly due to better clearance, since I'll have a half inch phenolic spacer under an MSD EFI with a stock unsilenced air cleaner. That combination was a tight fit without the spacer using the Holley intake.

I've heard too many horror stories about the Stealth heads, so I'm leaning toward the Edelbrock 9050s with the 75cc chambers. With my bore of 4.35 and stroke of 3.765, that should give me a compression ratio of around 9.7:1. The 9053s and the MP equivalents would kick me down to the low 9s. Of course I would have the heads checked out before installation. Piston to deck clearance is .085 (Eddy wants a min of .035), and the pistons have valve reliefs. With those heads I can use 9.125" push rods with upper cups and adjustable rockers. I have the rockers, but my newly removed push rods are 9.25".

I want a hydraulic flat tappet cam and since I already have a 3 bolt gear set, a 3 bolt cam is preferable, but a single bolt is not a deal breaker. I am aware of the ZDDP issue, thanks to this board. The problem with cam catalogs is the recommendations seem to be based on automatics. I don't know how having a loose converter, or having to have a stall speed of 2500 RPM or higher equates to the use of a clutch pedal.

I'm looking for a cam that will provide a smooth idle or a slight lope, good off the line torque and I guess I need a relatively low power/torque band, given my low cruising RPM. I'm not sure a stock or a near stock 440 cam will provide that. Then again, if I ever get to do a track day at an oval, I wouldn't want to run out of power at 85 or 90. I'd also like a cam that will be compatible with the springs that come with the head. No point in buying a loaded head just to change everything, which is another reason not to go with Stealth heads.

What about these specs, for the Engle 4418H EP-18HYD?

Street performance, good idle. Lightly modified engines. IN Valve lift .458" Advertised Duration 260° Cam Lift .305" Duration 216° Lobe Center 113° EX Valve lift .458" Advertised Duration 260° Cam lift .305" Duration 216°

Powerband approx 1500-5500.

Or do I need something with a longer exhaust duration due to the HP manifolds? I see a Crower 32242 recommended for 383s, but they seem to have a little higher power band than what I'm looking for. If I'm all wrong about that, let me know.

Thanks for reading! 

[don duick]

comp cam part no.21 -223 - 4  grind no. xe268h - 10 duration @.050 intake 224 exh 230. valve lift .477 int and .480 exh. This is the cam I have in my 440 in a 70 charger with automatic and stock convertor. Has smooth idle with slight lope good power off idle revs out to 5500 and 3.23 diff gears. great comfortable cruiser real pleasure to drive. it is a single bolt hydraulic. I also used adjustable pushrods and installed the rockers with zero preload. I know this is not correct but I have had a lot of bad luck with comp lifters as each time I have installed them with the specified preload they pump up and do not bleed off unless you turn off the engine. Comp do not offer cams this size with solid lifters.

comp cam part no. 21 - 231 - 4  grind no. xe274s - 10  duration @ .050 int 236 exh 242 valve lift .502 and .511 this is  the smallest solid cam offered by comp cams also a single bolt. This is the cam I have in my 440 in my other 70 charger with a 4 speed manual and 3.23 diff gears. not as comfortable as the above description. Does not have as much power off idle need to rev up a bit to get car moving and sometimes hard to start off without spinning back wheels. idle is bit rough but revs higher. When cruising in top gear at a speed of 40 mph engine revs are between 1500 and 1700 and not cruising smoothly you can hear the cam. I do not have an overdrive 4 speed like yours. are far as comfort goes this cam is borderline. I wish I had put the 224 230  {above} cam instead but I will tolerate it as not worth the cost and effort to change it. I am hoping with more tuning I can get it to be more drivable as I have been told this is not a big cam.
 
For your application my guess is the 224 would be the biggest you want. I also had a 218/224 cam in a ford torino with 351 4 speed and 3.45 diff gears that was a perfect combination. your compression is a bit low for a larger cam so a 218 @ .050 would be better suited. I have 10.3 compression in my motors one has edelbrock heads the other stealths. according to the machinist he prefers the stealth heads. The edelbrocks had 2 leaking exhaust valves and had to recut seats and face vlves the stealths were ok no leaks. I also had springs locks and retainers changed on both.
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[firefighter3931]

I like the 32242 Crower in a build like yours and have recommended that cam to several members. It has a 112* LSA to reduce overlap and reduce reversion which is important with restrictive manifold style exhaust. Great off idle power and throttle response. It will work fine with the stock E-Head springs. 


Ron

[BSB67]

First, you can get XE solid cams down to 256° duration.

Second, curious as to what pistons have valve reliefs but are 0.085" in the hole

Third, If you are not a performance geek, don't love to spend time under the hood tweeking stuff, and wont take it to the track,  the difference in cams will be imperceptible to you.

Don's recommended 268 will be fine.
Same with Ron's 271 ( I think that is what you recommended, I did not look)
Same with the MP .455 cam, the small Summit cam, the Bob K six pack cam.
as well as just about any cam in the 218 to 224° on a 110 to 114° LSA.

The tighter LSA cams will feel a little sharper down low, but really wont be any faster overall.

I have a friend that has probably run 6 different small cams in this size range in his 69 RT 440 w/ iron heads, exhaust manifolds, and 3.23s.  He is very tech savvy, a data collector, and a track test and tune guy.  By memory, he has measured and tested Hughes, Comps Magnums, HEs, and XEs, the small MP, Engle and Summit.  The short of it, they are about the same.  If you asked for his recommendation for your application, I think he would tell you the Summit cam.  Good value, slower ramps that are easy on parts and not lifter, spring, rocker, oil weight sensitive.

He and I would both tell you, if you really really want additional performance and up to 30 more hp, pick any reasonable cam, and take the car to the track and tune it really well.  I promise that the summit cam in a well tuned car will out perform the best cam in a back yard tuned car.

[darkside]

lunati voodoo 60302 or 60303

[twenty mike mike]

Thanks for the replies. The recommendation I got from Comp Cams was basically a standard 440 cam and Crower recommended a cam that tops out at 4800 RPM. I'm going to flip a coin between the Crower 32242 and the Comp 21-223-4 and I'm pretty sure it'll come up Crower.

Thanks again.