Part questions. Wing braces and head lamp actuator

[Daytona313]

Can any one tell me from these pictures if these wing braces are Daytona or Superbird? Is there a difference? Is there a way to tell if they are original or repro?



Also can anyone tell me what year these head lamp actuators are from? and if they're the same as used on Daytonas? The actuator and not the large bracket. number on the back is 2889883  90330. Is there any online dodge part reference websites?

[hemigeno]

Can any one tell me from these pictures if these wing braces are Daytona or Superbird? Is there a difference? Is there a way to tell if they are original or repro?

I can't tell from the pictures whether or not those are Daytona or Superbird braces, but the two cars' braces are different.  Judging from the freshness of the welds, they definitely look repro.  The hardware's different too, but that might be temporary bolts.

Also can anyone tell me what year these head lamp actuators are from? and if they're the same as used on Daytonas? The actuator and not the large bracket. number on the back is 2889883  90330. Is there any online dodge part reference websites?

As far as on-line parts references, try:

http://www.lightningjar.com/cars/%20mopar/decoders/partnumbers/searchpartnumbers.php?ex=

Some of the parts locators also have a description of the part too.  To try one of those, go to:

http://www.nosmopar.com

Using both of those links, the headlight actuator part number comes back as being for '68 Chargers.  I honestly thought they were the same for '68 and '69 (as well as for Daytonas and Superbirds).  I don't have my '69 parts manual here at the house, so I can't look it up in that reference until Monday, but I think they interchange.  If no one else posts the answer before Monday, I'll check for you then.

Hope this helps!

[hotrod98]

Dale,
The braces appear to be daytona reproductions. Originals will have an "R" stamped on the right hand pieces and an "L" on the left hand pieces. I don't usually stamp my repros and I don't think anyone else does either.
later,
larry

[Daytona313]

Thanks!
I don't see any stamps so the braces must be repro. as long as they'll work for a daytona clone I'm happy.

For the actuator the part number I have for daytona and superbird is 2926961 which comes up on nosmopar.com for only daytona and superbird. I thought they used the same as the charger?

[nascarxx29]

The first thing I notice is the wing to trunk floor brackets.Superbirds ones weld to the trunk floor and are not Lshaped I believe they are a straight piece .And ones pictured have the L shaped bolt on brackets to trunk floor.Look the ones used on a 69 daytona. I recall 961 being the numbers on my wingcars for the headlight actuator

[BigBlockSam]

daytona

[dayclona]

The wing braces are indeed Daytona,............as far as the canisters, PN#2889883 is a 1968 PN#,.............2926961 is a 1969 PN#,.........the air grabber canisters start with a 3  PN# series,.......................you could use the 68 canisters, however the "magnet" (yes there is a magnet inside!),......is rather large, takes a lot of vacumm to pop up the lites,...........the 69 canisters have a 50% reduction in the magnet base,....may have been a factory change to lessen the amount of vacumm required to opperate a lite door assy......the 6961 PN is the only canister used on Daytona/ Superbird applications,.....................now there will proberly be some winger who will "quote" D. Patiks comment from a Wingless Warrior newsletter stating not to use the 68 canister because there's possibly something different about some swing radius?..... whatever that is?...........trust me I've used the 68 canisters, there ok as long as you don't have a big cam, powerbrakes, and a ton of other vacumm assisted accessories

  Mike G./ DAYCLONA

[nascarxx29]

 



   
Those are right ones I used the 961
   
   
   
   

[hemi68charger]

The wing braces are indeed Daytona,............as far as the canisters, PN#2889883 is a 1968 PN#,.............2926961 is a 1969 PN#,.........the air grabber canisters start with a 3  PN# series,.......................you could use the 68 canisters, however the "magnet" (yes there is a magnet inside!),......is rather large, takes a lot of vacumm to pop up the lites,...........the 69 canisters have a 50% reduction in the magnet base,....may have been a factory change to lessen the amount of vacumm required to opperate a lite door assy......the 6961 PN is the only canister used on Daytona/ Superbird applications,.....................now there will proberly be some winger who will "quote" D. Patiks comment from a Wingless Warrior newsletter stating not to use the 68 canister because there's possibly something different about some swing radius?..... whatever that is?...........trust me I've used the 68 canisters, there ok as long as you don't have a big cam, powerbrakes, and a ton of other vacumm assisted accessories

  Mike G./ DAYCLONA

Damn Mike, that's some cool info........  Copy/paste for me.....   Have any trademarks on that?.. 

Troy

[nascarxx29]

This is the info I had recieved and go by


The reason for not using 1968 Charger vacuum headlight door cannisters on a nosecone is the possibility of them having an inccrrect down-stop travel.  In other words, the fiberglass headlight door goes too far down, or not far enough, and is beyond any adjustment possible.

[dayclona]

This is the info I had recieved and go by


The reason for not using 1968 Charger vacuum headlight door cannisters on a nosecone is the possibility of them having an inccrrect down-stop travel.  In other words, the fiberglass headlight door goes too far down, or not far enough, and is beyond any adjustment possible.










       Dave,...........I've dissected vacumm canisters, other than the size of the magnets inside, and the PN#'s cast on to them,..........they are identical in all properties,..........but what do I know?..................I've only fabricated countless dozens of steel bucket/ pivot assy's,............assembled countless noses,"real" and "cloned", also retrofited Janak assys for customers requiring working headlites,........................using both the 68 or 69 vac. canisters,.........also subtituted headlite canisters on airgrabber cars hood's,...................all with none of the ill effects, you conclude will/ might happen,.....................is your data based on W.W/  D. Patiks crystal ball visions?........................mine are based on fact/ real world experience,.........your doing a disservice with erronous information.........................................................................................



Mike G./ DAYCLONA

[thallium]

Mike. I don't what what it is.  You are very knowledgeable. No one questions your experience,  but for some reason you come off sounding like there is a lot of hate or something when you post.  I'm sure you don't mean to be like that, i'm positive you are here to help. Maybe it's just the way you are built and it can't be helped.   

For me, the way I would of put it would of been  " in my experience I have not incountered this problem and I have taken a lot of these canisters apart."   Not "but what do I know? I've only built about a billion of these things etc..."    Maybe being polite is not your cup of tea and building daytonas are...    Mike, maybe I'm being a little too picky? what's up with the attitude? we are all here to help each other out.

[BigBlockSam]

very well said Tabor   

[Old Moparz]

I also agree, these wing car parts arguments go south faster than Winnie The Pooh at a greasy E-Ore festival.   

[hotrod98]

 


Man, I hope they don't lock this thread like they did mine. I've certainly lost the desire to start any new threads. I'll just read everyone else's...at least until they're locked that is.

[nascarxx29]

Well Mike simply put.I base my hands on experience in over 30 years .And owning several original wingcars .I cant seem to recall seeing other than the #961 headlight vacuum canister on my cars and many original wingcars Ive been exposed to.I personally havent tried to use the 68 vacuum canister or know anyone that has .And what resulted from using the one other than the #961 factory issued on both wingcars.Then to seek out senior wing car club professionals that have longtime multiple original wingcar ownership experiences.And recommended as well the #961 as the part number used for the daytona and superbird .And I have done work on other various wingcars as seen bellow .And I dont recall seeing other than the #961 vacuum canisters.Can you name or know of a .Original wing car currently out fitted with someother other then the factory issued.#961s and works correctly without any modifications.And why there there isnt a service bulletin or notation in any chryslers parts books.About such a cross reference.And also in 30 + years of wingcar newsletter with tech help sections.Do you have any copies from any year newsletter that published this part exchange.From wingcar club founders and senior member multiple wingcar owners as Jim Radke Joe Machado David Patik Doug S etc etc .That offered a substitude for the 961 vacuum canister.I know chrysler used parts from both 2 sources .As example the 69 vailant park turn signal light.That was used for the daytona park turn signal light share same part # and useage..So I cant recommend using other then the #961 part.As I havent got any knowledge of anyone elses car that tried the other vacuum canister beside the #961 .With success .Do You..Id like to see replys from Doug S of DSAC and other known wing car authorities  that 68 vacuum canister part will work in place of the original #961 .Before I go with the useage of it.Our moderator Hemi Geno has a wingcar maybe he will chime in .Or if anyone Knows that Roger Gibson had used those non 961s vacuum canisters on a wingcar resto chime in .I know Roger back when he has doing corvette quality resto.I value his experience and opinion


1969 Daytona 440 Presently owned
1970 Coronet 500 383 Presently owned
1970 Superbird 440 U 166242
1970 Superbird 440 U 174597
1970 Superbird 440-6 V 179697
1970 Coronet RT 440 U 224126
1968 Road Runner 426 J 134509
1970 Daytona Replica 318 G 178701

[nascarxx29]

Mike. I don't what what it is.  You are very knowledgeable. No one questions your experience,  but for some reason you come off sounding like there is a lot of hate or something when you post.  I'm sure you don't mean to be like that, i'm positive you are here to help. Maybe it's just the way you are built and it can't be helped.   

For me, the way I would of put it would of been  " in my experience I have not incountered this problem and I have taken a lot of these canisters apart."   Not "but what do I know? I've only built about a billion of these things etc..."    Maybe being polite is not your cup of tea and building daytonas are...    Mike, maybe I'm being a little too picky? what's up with the attitude? we are all here to help each other out.
[/quote

Mike, maybe I'm being a little too picky? what's up with the attitude? we are all here to help each other out

..Ive got numerous letters pms from notable mopar resources moderators etc such as these quotes [Mike Goyette's nasty remarks on the various Mopar web boards].  I can send you a copy of the absolutely bizarre letter he wrote to me a
couple years ago. It convinced me he was either a nutcase or smoking some
bad dope. It's amazing he's singled me out to rant and rave about; 
    So I just not me that sees it.


what's up with the attitude

[hemigeno]

Guys,

I had hoped that it wasn't going to be necessary to get terribly specific with "Moderator" comments - and it is not directed at everyone - but...

Take the bashing of individuals and personalities elsewhere - don't bring that in here.  Most of the comments made in replies to this thread are alright, but a few remarks are headed in the wrong direction. 

Constructive criticism (PERFECT example in Tabor/Thallium's reply  ) is alright, when it is done with consideration.  It's a fine line to walk though, and all too easy to cross over into "potshots". 

For the moment, I'm not going to lock this thread as I did with Larry/hotrod's earlier thread.  It brings no joy to me (or anyone else) to lock a thread, but the alternatives are worse.  The quicker we can get back to talking about wing cars the quicker we can forego talking about "Da Rulez".

Sorry for the lecture, I'll get off the soapbox now...

[hemigeno]

As far as actuators go...

I don't know for certain whether the '68 actuators are interchangeable with the 961 '69 versions, but I had assumed earlier that they were (just a gut feeling).  However, I did find one reference that mentions a possible difference in arm length.  This "difference" wasn't verified, and being from the "Show-Me State" and all, I tend to try and find out for myself about a lot of things.

I looked in the Parts Book and the headlight door actuator bar (8-34-127 in the '69 Parts Book if you want to look it up) is P/N 2785578, which I highly suspect is the same on the 1968 Chargers.  Same thing with the actuator mounting bracket, which is P/N 2785883 and is almost certainly the same for '68 Chargers.  If that is the case, then it is also likely that the '68 and '69 actuator arms are the same length since the travel and geometry of the two setups should be identical.

That being the case, what Mike explained about the major/only difference between the '68 and '69 actuators being the magnets sounds plausible to me.  I'm not saying it's true, but it does sound possible.

If Mike has tried a set of '68 actuators and says it works, I wouldn't doubt it based on what I've observed so far.