stop the hate

[el dub]

Saw this on just a car guy. was told to send it on. I don't think its religious or political. Just something I think people should see. Its all about the truth.mods delete if you see fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCKSogV9E10&feature=player_embedded#t=386

[skip68]

That's the truth.  Here's a campaign,
DON'T RUN
DON'T RESIST
DON'T BE WANTED.  
These are the real reasons behind the majority of these so called completely innocent, upstanding young black victims.  
I'm white and I'll guarantee you if I run or resist or fight with cops I'm gonna be taken down, punched and or possibly shot and killed.  
I'm so beyond sick of hearing this race crap garbage.   It's a poverty thing and running and resisting with no respect for the law that's making them targets and escalating the situation for the MOST PART.   AND THAT'S THE TRUTH.    

It should be talked about.  The problem is we (as a country) aren't talking about the real reason these poor innocent law biding good saints young blacks are having trouble.   Innocent people DON'T run.   Innocent people DON'T RESIST.   And good people DON'T FIGHT WITH COPS.   

[hemi68charger]

...   It's a poverty thing ...   

I don't even think it is there. There are plenty of poor people who do the right thing. One's position in the socioeconomic latter shouldn't matter. It isn't an excuse.........

[skip68]

This should be ok because we aren't talking racist or religious or political.  We are talking about current events and criminals crying that they are being treated unfairly while they act above the law with no regard or respect for the law.    What I meant by poverty thing is there are plenty of poor trailer parks full of whites that do the same things and have the same problems with police presence always around and such.   They are a product of their environment no matter the color but the trailer park trash aren't protesting trying to look for an excuse to justify their criminal behavior and crying they're picked on because they're poor or whatever.   It's very simple math, don't break the law, don't run or resist and you won't find yourself in a bad situation.   

[skip68]

...   It's a poverty thing ...   

There are plenty of poor people who do the right thing.

That's the key right there.   Doing the right thing is what they seem to be missing.   

[JB400]

It's the Wild West or the Depression era all over again.  Defy the law, and we'll make a hero out of you.  They want to make Michael Brown out as a modern day Billy the Kid, ignoring the fact that he strong armed a convenience store clerk and robbed him.  Is this the type of role model the AA community wants?  I'll admit that they're lacking in role models lately, but I know for a fact there are some nice one's out there.

The PD's need to clean up their act as well.  They used to be the guys you could go get bumble gum and baseball cards from.  Their public appearance was more friendly and helpful.  There are still some older officers that follow this philosophy, but quite a few of the newer ones are more into marshal law.

[Ponch ®]

I agree that its not so much about race but about poverty and abuse of power.

You have to remember that most people - especially poor people, being trailer park trash or inner city - don't have an understanding of the finer points of the law. All they may know is "the right to remain silent".

Do you guys know what a Terry Stop is? Be honest (with yourself) don't google it.

Point being...if you live in a place where you or people you know people are always being harassed by the cops, then it happens to you, your first reaction may be to try to run (even if you haven't done anything wrong) not knowing what the repercussions are.

It's sort of easy to make generalizations, but everyone's life experiences are different.

[skip68]

No I don't know what a Terry stop is.   I also agree with abuse of power/ authority.   

[RallyeMike]

I agree that its not so much about race but about poverty and abuse of power.

Except that one of the the root primary causes of poverty is racism.



It seems simple that the community has the tools right now to stop this, and it's not by marching and smashing things: Obey the law, stop fighting the police, an stop resisting search and arrest.

....... until you factor in that 1) people in poverty are generally uneducated and grow up without good role models, 2) today's twisted attitude on personal civil rights/liberties, 3) and the prevailing attitude toward Authority in the communities most affected by this. They teach children that the police are bad, that you should fight back and run, and even to be proud that your uncle/brother/friend/dad is in jail or once was. They reap what they sow.

The solution is not simple. 

[Mike DC]

                  

 
The Michael Brown death set off an existing powder keg.  The police/municipalities in that area have been financially preying on the poorer citizens for generations.  The crowd misplaced a lot of their frustration onto that shooting incident & the racial component.  But the frustration at the authorities in general is valid.  


"Don't run" is perfectly sensible advice if you trust the police to treat you fairly.  The minorities in many poor areas don't.  These communities collectively have too much experience with cops lying to them about what their rights are, blatantly ignoring their rights, physical intimidation or beating, and arresting people for nothing.  (And that arrest may bring a ride across town in the police van without a seatbelt . . . )

[Lennard]

Wow, that video hits the nail on the head!  The whole, if you don't run or resist the police you'll be treated right is bull shit. I've personally experienced that and I'm white. The cops just love their authority too much...

[skip68]

For the MOST part you'll be fine.   Yes there are bad cops but MOST are NOT going to beat you for no reason.  So make sure you don't give them a reason.   Body cameras are a must.   If you feel, think or know that cops are likely to abuse you then why in the hell would you give them an excuse.   I'm not buying that one bit.   I know that most dogs will chase me if I start running, so knowing that I'm going to do everything I can to avoid provoking them.   Sure it's possible to have a dog come up to me and bite me or try and chase me off but if I'm stupid enough to run I'm guaranteeing to start a chase.   It's generations of criminals passing down bad advice to younger generations that all police are bad and you should run from the police.   And why is it that they run?   Because 99% of them are guilty of something and don't want to get caught, NOT that they are afraid of the police.  These criminals initiate/provoke the situation into downward spiral.    AGAIN, INNOCENT PEOPLE DON'T RESIST OR RUN.   

[el dub]

I think its about education, parenthood, money and the media. Racism will never go away. It is worldwide. But so far there are enough good people out there and coming up that hopefully the world will stay in balance. That is if we don't screw nature up first.

[Ponch ®]

The solution is not simple. 

Exactly. There's no bright line here.

Some people say: "F the cops...theyre all a bunch of trigger happy racists". No, they're not. They have a dangerous job, are often disrespected, and have to deal with the fact that they may not come home every day they go to work. They're only human and can f--k up because in the heat of the moment they overreact.

And then other people say: "well, if you don't run from the cops or try to fight them you'll be fine". No, that's not always the case. People get beat up or killed even though they didn't do anything wrong and maybe were just nervous or had a bad history of dealing with the police. (see Mike DC's post).

I mean, here:
http://gawker.com/dad-calls-cops-on-son-to-teach-him-a-lesson-cops-shoot-1460159897

[skip68]

I hear you Ponch but for the most part you'll be fine by cooperating with the police.  Everyone knows that things will not go good for you if you don't.  So go down that road that's going to guarantee to turn the situation bad or worse?    Unless you get away you won't like the outcome and it only makes it worse for you.   The truth is these criminals aren't afraid of the cops at all that's why they challenge them.  They just don't want to get caught.   

[Ponch ®]

I hear you Ponch but for the most part you'll be fine by cooperating with the police.  Everyone knows that things will not go good for you if you don't.  So go down that road that's going to guarantee to turn the situation bad or worse?    Unless you get away you won't like the outcome and it only makes it worse for you.   The truth is these criminals aren't afraid of the cops at all that's why they challenge them.  They just don't want to get caught.  

yeah, definitely. I agree that being a dick to a LEO just because he pulled you over for a busted tail light is not exactly the best way to handle things. But then again, that's easy for me to say, since I've never had a bad experience with a cop - even when they've been dicks themselves, I knew it was because I did something wrong (speeding). I've always been the "Yes sir, no sir, ok sir, have a good day sir" ["...and I'll fight this bullshit in court"].

I don't know, I have an interesting perspective because my "coming of age" was in L.A. during the Rodney King / LA Riots / Rampart Scandal era. So you'd think I'd be all anti-cop, but in fact for a while I wanted to be one. But it's in my nature to not make generalized opinions, look at all circumstances, and realize that things aren't always clear cut one way or the other.

BTW, I strongly recommend reading the Rampart Scandal wikipedia page. But youll need a couple of hours, because you'll end up in Wiki vortex.

[Mike DC]

For the MOST part you'll be fine.   Yes there are bad cops but MOST are NOT going to beat you for no reason.  So make sure you don't give them a reason.   Body cameras are a must.

I fully agree.

But . . .

If you feel, think or know that cops are likely to abuse you then why in the hell would you give them an excuse.   I'm not buying that one bit.  

Is running from a cop on sight (not after he is trying to pull you over or talk to you) "giving them an excuse"?  That is all that drug dealer in Baltimore originally did to start the incident, and he ended up dead.  

I know that most dogs will chase me if I start running, so knowing that I'm going to do everything I can to avoid provoking them.   Sure it's possible to have a dog come up to me and bite me or try and chase me off but if I'm stupid enough to run I'm guaranteeing to start a chase.   It's generations of criminals passing down bad advice to younger generations that all police are bad and you should run from the police.   And why is it that they run?  

Why should the poor/minorities be looking at a LEO and expecting behavior akin to a dangerous dog?

I get what you're saying here.  You're saying people should use some common sense and try not to do their half of the job of provoking an incident.  

But why are the poor/minorities the ones who need to show better judgment & more benefit of the doubt before the LEOs?  Aren't the LEO's supposed to be at least as grownup & understanding about this as a random citizen, if not more?

I'm trying not to cop-bash here.  But when you have a situation where one group is abusing their power over another due to lack of trust, you can't realistically expect the abused group to be the ones to start the process of restoring trust.  More of the burden has to fall on the group in power.  

Because 99% of them are guilty of something and don't want to get caught, NOT that they are afraid of the police.  These criminals initiate/provoke the situation into downward spiral.  AGAIN, INNOCENT PEOPLE DON'T RESIST OR RUN.

Disagree.  

You're right, many of them are guilty of something.  But "guilty of something" is a grayer area than it once was.  These days the USA locks up young male minorities at such an atrocious rate.  For that group, having a criminal history does not necessarily make you much of a criminal anymore.  It really doesn't.  (<-- and this needs fixing as much as anything else.)

And once you're into the system like that, you no longer get any benefit of the doubt from the cops.  You may only be 16-18yo by then so you still have future interactions with LEOs coming before you reach your more mature years.  The spiral starts.  

[skip68]

You've got some good points Mike and are correct about minorities being locked up more.  In these troubled areas (poverty drugs and high crime) there needs to be more done involving officers and community relations.   Not sure what difference it will make but something needs to be done.   More aggressive officer training along with body cameras Is a must have along with community responsibility.  Unfortunately most the adults in these criminals lives are criminals themselves.   Bad role models so it's kinda bread into them.   
   

[Mike DC]

Yeah, bad role models are a huge problem.  

It all really boils down to economics though.  If you subtract the decent working-class jobs from an area, the crime rate will pretty much skyrocket overnight.  Not just crimes committed over the lost income but also things like rapes & domestic violence too.  

We also have a War on Drugs that has been taken way too far.  And a privatized prison industry that makes a profit off keeping non-violent offenders in jail as long as possible.  They lobby to keep mandatory minimum sentences high on stuff like minor pot posession, failure to pay ongoing parole fees, etc.



Some of it is just blatant though.  Like that drug dealer killed by the police ride in Baltimore.  That wasn't a failure to seatbelt the guy in.  The Baltimore PD has an ongoing habit of beating prisoners that way.  They have paid out civil suits for it many times already and it's still going on.  What can you do when a department is doing stuff like this even after getting busted for it?  That isn't just looking the other way during beat-downs after a pursuit when the adrenalin is pumping.  It's plain old bullying people.  They are doing it long after the suspect is defenseless and everyone has calmed down.  

I know some of these suspects are the scum of the earth.  But the LEOs are still supposed to be the good guys.