To build or to have built a stroker from a 383

[XH29N0G]

I am trying to decide whether to build my first engine or to have it built by a professional.

I find the idea of building an engine very appealing .  I am a novice but what I have is time.  I have only gone so far with basic things like carb, intake, transmission, clutch, headers, cam.  

I would like to build/have built a stroker using a spare 383 block I have.  Do not yet know what size and will ask about that later (once I figure out whether I am doing this or not).

To decide, I need advice/input on feasibility & cost.  I am assuming the two options will have similar costs, but do not know if this is true.  If it looks feasible to build, I will be writing to ask what options might be best for me (it is a street driven car), books to rely on, tools, etc....

I appreciate all of the feedback I have had so far from the DC forum because it has really helped me to solve the issues that have arisen so far.  

I thank everyone in advance for their suggestions.

[Chryco Psycho]

Cost wise you will spend a bit more on a typical stroker short block , depending where you live the cost of new parts is close to the cost of labor to fix the old parts + you get new parts . Heads are a similar situation , stock iron heads can be rebuilt & ported to make decent power but for the $$ spent you should be able to get a set of Stealth heads & port them for similar cost & again everything is new not 40 years old .
To me it just makes sense to do the stroker , without building a race engine the 383 can be increased to 436 CI easily .
Everything has to work together , so cam, carb , intake , heads , converter , gearing all has to be matched to work at the same RPM for best results.

[Challenger340]

Hi James
IMO,
the first, and most important rule to understand at the outset, when contemplating rebuilding these old engines....or making Strokers from them....
is that you can never exceed the speed of your wallet
especially nowadays,
because the engine rebuilding industry has been decimated to the point where there are very few "competent" generic style general Machine Shops left open anymore, no money in it, so basically just "hacks" left in the meat & potatoes side of things....
indeed,
the vast majority of Shops that were any good, or had the knowledge/ability, have moved into "High performance/specialty" type Engines because that was the only market left that paid decently to keep the lights on.

Therein lies the quandry when contemplating accessing "Good Machining" if you are thinking of doing it yourself ?

Back to the feasibility...
IMO,
Figure out how much you can spend FIRST, then, see what you can do with it for GOOD Machining and DECENT parts, at GOOD Shops from DECENT suppliers.

Again, IMO,
WORST mistake you can make...is to try and make the Machining and Parts "Fit", into a too low budget at "Joe's Cheapo Machining" because thats all you have..recipe for disaster !
Build within your means and be happy

Some good resources on here for the parts as to good & bad, lots can be had on the internet that are OK...
Start looking for a Good Shop with a reputation in your area, preferably that knows Blueprinting for machining...
Start pricing ....

[bobs66440]

You can definitely build it yourself. If I can do it, ANYONE can!  

You just need to do a LOT of research on EVERYTHING to be sure you don't waste time and money. There's no such thing as too much research! And as mentioned, it is vital to find a good machine shop. They can make or break you. The good news is, there's many good folks here and elsewhere to help get through the process.

Here's a link to my build. It's not a stroker, but you may find some of the info helpful.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,91885.0.html

[Cooter]

Stroker 383 Low deck, or 520 C.I. Raised deck. If your going to spend the $$, get the biggest bang for your buck.

[XH29N0G]

Thank you, this helps.  Now for my next two questions. 

1. Can someone direct me to a good machine shop in the Maryland/DC/Va area.  I am on the NE side of DC in Maryland, but am willing to travel.

2. I have a second B block.  If I decide to go for an RB, what is the best way to proceed?  I notice some places sell machined blocks (like 440 source)?  Are there advantages to going this way rather than finding one on ebay?

James

[Paul G]

I am researching an engine rebuild myself. Just not happy with the power I have. Runs good, I just want more. I am finding several good engine builders in my area. The best costs the most. The cheaper ones dont give me the answers I am looking for. Answers that fit the questions I have learned from being on this site. Talking with good engine builders makes me think, do I want to cut, say, $1000 off the price by doing some of the build myself, just to end up making mistakes that cost twice that in the end. I am very good at making mistakes!  A real pro. Talk about compression ratio, deck height, milling the block and heads, valve train geometry, etc. One change effects the others. And it has to be right for the whole to be right. Not something I want to get wrong, and have to do over. I am good at do overs!

I see lots of cars on cruise night that are home built. Sound like crap, blow smoke and leak everything. And the owner is very proud of himself. It runs. Not to discourage you at all. By all means do it if you have the time and money to invest in a learning experience. On cruise night you also see the guys come in with cars that are done right, and they did it themselves. I envy those guys. You could be one of those guys.   

[Patronus]

But if you have the money, wouldn't you do a 440? I mean it probably costs the same and you get more power. Is there any reason to to do a 383 vs 440?

[Cooter]

The issue I have with low deck strokers is once you go beyond a certain point, the wrist pin is gonna be up in the oil ring @ 520 C.I.

An RB engine has more deck height, therefore, more chance to attain 520 C.I. without having this issue.

Anything beyond about 520 C.I. from what I understand, and even an RB block will have it's wrist pin all up in the oil ring. only reason the low deck engines have any chance at all in the stroker arena is the fact that someone back 15 years ago tried a 3.750 (440) crank in a 400 block (451 C.I.),and came up with a decent power build using stock parts.

[Challenger340]

IMO,
I like long rod engines, especially with BB mopars that utilize...lets just say...."less gifted airflow" cylinder Heads for the cubic inchs involved.
and,
there are certainly restrictions to the size of Stroker that can be built based on the low-deck B Engines, before simple physics dictates entering troubled areas of of bottom end geometry, that are a concern from a Builder standpoint.
that said,
EVERYTHING that has benefits with a 440 blocks higher deckheight, also has detriments....

let me explain...
1.) while it is true that a 440 block has a higher deckheight, and can accomodate longer rods in bigger strokers to keep the pin out of the ringpack...
it is also true that the 440 blocks have weaker Cylinder walls than the lowdeck blocks.
NOT, that the 440 walls are thinner, they are not, just that they are the same thickness as the lowdeck blocks, but are LONGER UNSUPPORTED length   because of the higher deck and more prone to movement=less power. Advantage Lowdeck Blocks

2.) Whats the FIRST weakness in any BB Mopar Engine when contemplating a Stroker ?
If you answered the MAINS..you get a cookie
Now go look at a mainweb thickness on a 400 lowdeck, then go look at the BEST 440 you can find.....pretty much a no-brainer there...mass is the key with Detroit wonder metal(cast Iron)...advantage Lowdeck Block

3.) Go look at ANY lowdeck Main Cap, then look at a 440 main Cap...IDENTICAL "outside" dimension, just the 440 cap is thinner because it has a BIGGER hole drilled in it for the larger 440 main, advantage Lowdeck Block

So the Tally is this....440 is higher and can utilize longer rods in BIGGER strokers, YES !
But,
it has weaker walls than a 400.
weaker main caps than a 400.
weaker mainwebs than a 400.

So, do we really wanna build a BIGGER, STRONGER, Stroker out of a weaker Block ?

My second contention is this.....
I don't care how BIG the "Compressor" is underneath...you can not exceed the Cylinder head feeding it Air & Fuel.....all you can do is USE UP whatever Air & Fuel a given Cylinder Head can deliver, sooner, with a BIGGER Compressor(stroker) underneath.
And given, IMO,
that MOST strokers contemplated on here, revolve around either the 440 source "Stealth" Heads, or the Eddy RPM Heads as cost effective....
IMO,
I see absolutely no sense whatsoever, even contemplating Strokers above 505" using those heads ? WHY ? Wuffor ? You are out of Cylinder Head.

So, and these are just my opinions as an Engine Builder, BTW,(I was putting those stock 440 cranks in 400 Blocks waaay back in 1983)
If we are using Heads that even WELL PORTED, can only efficiently feed a Stroker around 500" ?
and,
we can still maintain a decent rod ratio in a lowdeck ?
WHY,
would we not choose the STRONGEST Block possible for the application ?

Look no wars wanted(IMO)....and no slight to the venerable 440 blocks for strokers, all I am saying is although 400 blocks lack deckheight for Stroker/Rod/piston combos above 500 inchs...
neither,
should anybody "default" to the 440 Block above 500" believing the Geometry is going to compensate for what is really a "weaker" cousin,
especially,
on a Budget Stroker, using BUDGET(sub 500") Cylinder heads, which really superfluous building bigger than 500" on either low383/400 or 440 High block with anyways ?

[Supercharged Riot]

I personally didnt want my 383 Magnum Engine go to waste.
I think its sad that the 383 gets very little aftermarket support compared to the 440 engine.

I didnt spend money to stroke my 383 for a couple reasons.
Some people already explained it.
If you spend that much money stoking it to match the displacement of a 440.
A stock 440 engine already accomplishes what a 383 stroker would do.

If you want a sleeper and make people think you just got a stock 383, sure go ahead.
I kept my 383 because I liked the A833 transmission that came with it.
I love driving stick shift. 

[BSB67]

Figure out how much you can spend FIRST, then, see what you can do with it for GOOD Machining and DECENT parts, at GOOD Shops from DECENT suppliers.

Build within your means and be happy

Do not take this lightly.  This is the only correct first step.. and probably the most important one for the entire build.  Spend the necessary time determining exactly what you want out of your car in detail, and write it down.  Then take a serious look at your budget and determine what it is, and write it down.  Seek advice from some people that are knowledgable and discuss your goals and budget.  You will likely then have to go back and adjust either the goals, or the budget or both.  Without this kind of plan, you will get side tracked, miss your goal, and spend more than your budget.

Most will not take the time to do the planning.  If you write your plan down, in detail, over the next couple of day, then continue to think about it, consult with others, I'll bet that two months from now the plan will change considerably from the original..

If you want to build your own engine, do it.  But don't do it to save money, you won't.

[XH29N0G]

This gives me a lot to think about.  I am sure I will have more questions.  Thera situation right now is that I have a 383 block (not a 400 or 440), but that can be changed by getting one of the others.  If I do that, I will have to figure out the best way to do that.  

My interest in doing this myself would be to learn how rather than to save money.  The considerations for me are whether I make mistakes that an experienced engine builder may not make.  It sounds like this means I need to be as careful and read as much as I can.  

I have not yet found a local machine shop, but will start asking shops around here for advice and recommendations (I am near DC on the maryland side)

This about sums up the situation.  I appreciate the discussion and am learning a lot.  

[Cooter]

When building a stroker, you UPGRADE the "Weaker" mains, etc. Use good sh*t and it'll last, build on a budget by cutting corners, and it'll come apart quick.


I never leave the block "Stock" when considering a longevity stroker build. Just FYI.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Nothing wrong with the 383 block. They are good engines.  Rodneys in jarretsville md does good work and I have a good friend in churchville md that owns a nice shop as well. He does A LOT Of race engines and is usually packed with work but I will check Monday.

[Supercharged Riot]

Take a class and build it your self man ! 

Im doing it (check out my thread). Its worth the experience. Have faith in yourself even if its your first rebuild.

I figured, it aint rocket science

Even if I screw up, I'll learn from my mistakes (hopefully not an expensive one).

[XH29N0G]

Thanks for the suggestion.  How did you find the class you took?  

I am considering proceeding even if I cannot find a class.

[Supercharged Riot]

Almost every local community college has automotive courses.
You just pay for tuition and you get to use their resources and learn at the same time.
Its worth it if youre a first timer.

You learn many things
How to measure using precision measuring equipment such as micrometers and dial bore gauges
You learn how to look up how to research your engine specs and how to shop for parts

You also get to use their heavy equipment such as the boring machine and honing machine
You get access to using equipment you normally dont have at home such as a hot tank air tools

You have an instructor to give you pointers in case you get stuck.
I didnt finish my engine but i dont regret taking the class.