wiring woes 1973 charger

[solids0be]

1973 Dodge charger 400CI

My horns have never worked since ive owned the car and after work today I decided i wanted to see if I could get some sound out of them using a wire from the positive battery terminal. Guess what they sounded off perfect.. i was like sweet one step closer to getting those working so i cleaned up the leads whiule they were off and reconnected the wires to the terminals anyways I just happened to be using a fuse embedded wire to test the horns and remembered how I had jerry rigged the fusable link 6 years ago after it melted due to a alternator short. Anyways I had ran a non fusable wire to the bulkhead (Really stupid I know) but it had never given me any issues before. So my spider sense tingled and i decided to check on the plastic connector on the wire and low and behold its melted and fused together... I was like oh damn dodged a bullet big time i could have burnt this mother down if I had driven anywhere. Anyways as a temp fix I cut out the melted connector and used the fuse embedded wire and spliced it into the wire going to the bulkhead and ran it to back to the positive lead connector. I had a 15 Amp fuse within the fuse embedded wire and went to turn the car over, vroom started right up I was like sweet so it idles for a second and I push the horn button on my aftermarket tuff wheel. Anyways I press the horn button and the cap pooped off cause it wasnt secured correctly. SO yeah I rev the engine an BAM huge spark from the steering wheel and the car dies. I check the fuse Link I just installed and yep the fuse went.. I replace it and start the car again and give it a rev....Same thing Pop goes the fuse and spark from the steering wheel...So I check all my common grounds looking for the short and find nothing...SO i try to start the car again but I notice that the Temp/Gas gauges are trying to Peg and my aftermarket Tach maxed out 360 degrees when the ignition is on.. Im like hmmm and try to start the car...the starter engadges but the car wont turn over. so here I am last week It was running like a dream no issues....and now who knows what ive done.

My questions are:

Why are the gauges pegging, is it because I have a Short somewhere

Why did it spark through the horn equipment in the steering wheel when I revved the engine..again a short in the wiring?

Why wont the car turn over...No spark perhaps? Did I fry the Ignition? voltage regulator? Coil?

Im really frustrated now because Ive been successfully been fixing the small things that have been bugging me since ive owned her, in the last 3 months Ive replaced the Positive battery cable/fuel filter/sparkplugs/temp sending unit/fixed a bad motor mount/fixed a power steering leak/speedometer cable/Tachometer.

The horns were on the list and now ive set my self back again. If anyone can throw some suggestions out Id appreciate it. Its late right now and my minds not right especially knowing that if I had just let sleeping dogs lie I could have been driving this weekend enjoying the weather.

[nascarxx29]

Gauges pegging dash cluster not grounded well or Instrument voltage regulator

Try unhooking the after market tach .Its wiring maybe be causing ignition cut out

Do you have the factory electronic ignition.Or something else

Are you getting any dead shorts battery going dead or a spark when putting battery cable on indication a drawl on the system

Also try in the search box for the trouble your cars having - No Spark etc etc for similar and resolved issues
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,30748.0.html

[67tbird]

sounds like a live short, might want to check that ammeter leads are tight and nothing touching(shorting) to them on your cluster, that'd cause everything to peg, short term, then fry!

[solids0be]

Well its factory Electronic ignition set up, but I run a MOPAR Orange box and an accel Supercoil and distributer setup. The thing that confuses me is that I was having 0 issues until I started to play with the horns.

I have no idea though when the fusable link got toasted, it was fine a couple weeks ago but ive been driving her a lot over the weekends and everything has been working fine. Last thing electronic that I fixed was the Tempature sending unit on the block and it was working flawlessly for multiple drives. The only thing I can think of is that either I knocked somthing loose while changing out the fuel filter last week and just never ran the car long enough to notice and possibly that when I did run it for the minute or two  I melted the fusable link. Or that when I was playing with the horns I knocked somthing loose ...but It wouldent explain why the fusable link was melted because I noiticed it before I started the car yesterday....

Regardless Ill need to break down and buy a AMP tester I guess and start taking readings. Worst case scenerio is that Ill have to rebuild the wiring Harness again from scratch but Im thinking now that I go back to the fuel filter side and see if I have any bad grounds or some wires touching. Hopefully I won't need a new coil, Alternator or Gauge voltage limiter because its gonna cost me at least 50 bucks to replace either of them. One thing I know for sure is that I toasted that Tachometer...theres no reason the needle should be sitting on the other side of the Gauge pin ..Maybe if I get it started it will bounce back But I doubt it....sucks it was a bitch to run all those wires through the firewall.

[nascarxx29]

A ohmeter for checkng wires in a harness. And a 12 volt testlight come in real handy also

[solids0be]

One thing still confuses me right off the bat...Why was it sparking at the steering wheel horn button assembly...I mean does that identify a short right there? or is that just the horn ground wire reacting to a live short?

[solids0be]

well I troubleshot for a couple hours today.

Removed the Gauge resistor to prevent any damage to my gauges as they tried to peg out (Ill have to buy one and test to see if it still pegs the gauges with the new resistor..it will at least give me a better idea of whats going on).

Unplugged the Tach to prevent any more damage and to make sure it did not interferre with the Coil for what ever reason.

checked the bulkhead and the fuse box and everything looked good as far as I could tell.

I checked to make sure I was getting fuel because I just changed out the fuel filter..and I it was squirting strong from the jets.

Bought a new Ballast resistor from Orielys and ensured it made good contact with the fire wall.new  I put a 20 amp buss fuse in the fusible link and tried to start her with a jump from my wifes car....and It will crank but wont fire up. I checked for power at the coil with the ignition on and im getting power but it dosn't rule out a bad coil.   

After reading a few threads Im a little worried about a bad Alternator as well..this car has eaten at least 2 since Ive owned it so Ill have to keep that in mind as well, but I don't think its the case.

So All I can think is that its possible there is a bad wire in the engine harness somewhere. It has been repaired twice since ive owned it and but it was splices into the old wire harness connectors and they were crimped not soldered. Just removing some black tape I can see mutiple places where the wires starting to become exposed so that bad news anyways. 

So to be on the safe side the Plan is to Purchase a premade engine harness, ive heard mixed reviews on Bill evans work but I figure ill feel him out over the phone and express my concerns about people complaints about bad crimps and see what his feedback is. If that dosn't pan out YearOne has a set for just under 200 I believe.

Hopefully by next weekend ill have it in hand and will be able to report back

One question though...If I am planning on using a fuseholder in place of the fusible link what Gauge wire and what AMP fuse should I use with it?

[Plum Crazy 68]

Be sure to check the ground cable and engine to body ground.  Take the alternator down and have it tested before spending a lot too.  Always go with the cheap fixes first I say. Clean everything and get everything adjusted before blowing the money.

[dodgechar]

     dont  know if this will  help,  maybe dodge fixed this by 73.  my 69 had  a wiring block between the interior  and the engine compartment .  a block that connected  the two harnesses via connecting pins that ware out, get loose,old  what have you.  i took the time to soder those conection and by by passing the connecters   and just have one wire inside to out for each wire.  that with a ammeter by pass,  somewhere in this site, check the search , amp by pass, it would seem all the wire woes went away. the charging is strong .battery in trunk.   i sususpect by 73 dodge did away with this firewall block conecter.  if not it was a great fix  with the  amp bypass trick.

[solids0be]

Well I should really learn to let sleeping dogs lie....Today i got to work on the issue again..I had read somthing about trying to power the positive side of the coil directly from the battery to see if it would start...well worst idea ever. I tried to start the car and was greeted by a huge Puff of smoke from the distributor. I fried the Wireing harness from the coil to the distributor but managed to disconnect everything before  any other damage was done. I should have just stopped and purchased a new 12 volt tester (Mine was broken at the bottom of my tool box) and a cheapo coil  on the way home from church to see if that would solve the problem... I almost broke down and cried when I looked up the prices for an new Accel performance distributor around $400. So yeah while trying to keep costs down I tripled my original spending limit.

Well after I cooled down I removed the distributor to assess the damage. Took everything apart and yeah I fried those wires real good the Distributor module was dirty but undamaged as far as I can tell. But I guess it was good I removed it anyways..it was FILTHY inside the distributor houseing. So I took apart everything cleaned up the module and the contacts and put everything back together. I stopped by The auto parts store and picked up a accel canister coil for cheap and some 18 gauge wires and connectors. At the kitchen table I Rebuilt the Distributor wire harness and it actually looks pretty good, Installed the new coil with a temporary mount..I guess Accel decided it didn't need to include a mounting kit...ANYways I rebuilt the Wireing harness as well from the coil to the ballast resistor as well as secured the rest of the ignition connections within the engine bay. I reinstalled the Distributor exactly as it came out but figured ill need to dial in the timing once I get it running again.

So For the moment of truth I reconnected the battery and tried to start it......but alas it does not turn over...But then again the Battery was pretty much spent. Ill need to jump it tomarrow after work to see if I can get her going, but now in the back of my head Im worried that I might have damaged that Distributor module.  ($75.00)

I did a final test to make sure I had power in all the right places and Ive verified that have 12 volts at the positive and negative terminal of the coil..so that looks good. Power at the ballast as well....Anywhere else I should check?

So yeah Ill need to do some more home work to determine why it wont start, Ive decided to hold off on the new wire harness until I refill the money in the Chargers spend account.

I will return to the bulk head though...I have a feeling that thats where the problem may lie..Both the fusebox and the bulkhead are pretty brittle ..go figure..but yeah I will report back when I break...errr...fix somthing else

[dodgechar]

    I looked back and the amp bypass trick wasnt on this site,though it my be now, it was at  madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges2.shtml    I did this in 04 and its been sweet since then.  I hope the site is still there and comes in handy,  it might save you a wire harness  purchase but cost you a backache and time.   I'd  surely bypass the bulkhead connectors too.   soder & shrinkrap.

[solids0be]

Well Im waiting on some parts to some in and in the mean time I decided to take a look under all the Black tape all the way back to the fire wall bulkhead...And wow I pulled on the Voltage regulator connector and its blue wire just snapped, and the green wire did not look any better! As I dug further I realized that even though I had a Breakerless distributor with an internal Ignition module that the mechanic that worked on my engine all those years ago had left the Orange box ECU on the wall....And connected to the power connector and the ballast resistor..so Yeah. Anyways I removed the Old ECU off the wall and got rid of the excess clutter of wire. As i got through the rest of the black tape I finally got to where the OEM wiring met years of DIY wiring. I was surprised to find that the orginal wiring that wasn't exposed was actually in pretty good shape. and when I removed the bulkhead connector it looked pretty good as well no burnt plastic or anything. For the most part I think a big issue I was having was lots of wires that were connected but doing nothing.

So I stopped by a couple auto parts stores till I found a new Regulator connector and bought a couple differn't connectors to help me rebuild the harness correctly. I should save a lot just rebuilding it myself and I found that Ace hardware had all the colors of the rainbow when it comes to electrical wireing. Should cost less then 15 bucks to get all the correct colored wiring. I should have the final product done by next saturday and hopefully Ill just turn the key and she'll fire back up.

[solids0be]

Rebuilt the Harness today and it looks pretty good. All the new wires match the color of the old wires except one brown wire that powers the coils... I figure ill get some brown tape and convert it. Also my instrument voltage regulator came in and the gauges are working perfect again. The only things im missing is in the fusible link I bought the wrong Ring connector its too small for the ignition junction bolt and im waiting on the new distributor ignition module to come so i can swap out the old one.

So if all goes well ill have everything connected and ready to test by thursday, The only thing in stuck on is a good mounting bracket for my Accel super coil. It looks like I might have to drill some new holes in the inner fender because the old ones were either stripped or the mechanic used self tappers...... So yeah another fun thing for me to fix.

[solids0be]

I spent 2 hours getting the engine bay cleaned up after work today. I arranged all the newly installed wiring and spay painted some spots where I had removed un-necessary electronics. I installed a new fusable Link and got rid of the inline fuse idea. I decided to check the mail and low and behold my new Accel Ignition module had arrived. After dinner I cleaned of the dinner table and took out the dizzy to perform surgury. Luckily this was the second time I dug into it so I was familiar with all the parts. I removed the old module and put in the new one..which was slightly bigger so it was a tight fit, Re connected everything and adjusted the Magenetic pick up to have the least amount of space between the reluctor arms. Luckily I had marked the dizzy this time when I took it out so i slipped it back in and aligned the arm to plug #1. Installed all the wires tightened it all down and tried to turn her over. PO POP...I guess I had installed the dizzy arm 180 degrees off the first time I removed and put it back in. A simple adjustment later i tried  again and Vrooooooooomm  She started right up first turn. I jumped out and checked for smoke or weird smells but it was just the sweet smell of old gas from the carb from a week and a half of troubleshooting. I adjusted the timing with my vaccum gauge and shes running at 20+ PSI. I wish I knew what RPM but the Tach is definatly still fried..It may just be th needle though because it looks like its reacting to RPM correctly...Ill have to take it apart and experiment.

One weird thing though is it looks like shes not charging...but im not sure it may just be the battery was pretty much 100% discharged and is slowly comming back. The needle non the ampmeter was just sitting right below center.  I turned her off and decided to wait till tomarrow before I start messing around further, I still have to reinstall the instrument voltage regulator which I tested and then removed just in case there were issues with the dizzy again.

But yeah Im stoked, I fixed everything for under $150 and have a plethora of wiring components to use in the future. It was just soo sweet to hear her purring again. thanks to everyone who helped out. Especially NACHO because without your MSpaint wiring Diagram i would have been screwed, it was integral to my repairs.

[solids0be]

well I took out the alternator to have it tested at the parts store and it was fried, Picked up a Reman for $50 so thats not to bad. Unfortunetly when removing the alternator I broke the bolt that slides through the alternator and screws into the engine mounted alternator bracket. Its in there good too so ill have to see if I can have it drilled out or find a replacement. Ill have to scourge google to see if I can find a the part that will work on a 400BB because im thinking that the threads may be toast if I get the broken bolt piece out. any suggestions on where to look would be great. Its a rectangular piece that mounts using two bolts to the engine block and has a threaded endpiece for the Alternator bolt to slide through.

[dodgechar]

          Try this site ,  swap meet- parts wanted

[solids0be]

Took it to the Autohobby shop on base and the kid there welded a bolt onto the broken piece and tried to tourqe it out.. he broke the welds 3 times before hammering it out using a vice....Threads were toasted must have gotten cross threaded while it was backed  out.

ANYways no big loss becuase it looks like on the orginal bracket piece the threads got stripped, so who ever had it before me had a big Nut welded onto the piece for it to thread into...its a real mess. the car was orginally a AC car and now is Non AC with the old AC alternator set up. Somehow though all the belts still route correctly so im gonna see if I can just buy a cheap non AC setup from NAPA or Advanced auto...or worse comes to worse I angle grind the welded on nut off and have the Kid at the auto shop reweld the new nut on lol. Red neck as all hell but if i get it fixed ill clean it up with a wire brush and put a couple layers of black gloss paint.

so yeah again 1 step forward ...2 steps back

[solids0be]

alright mounted the new alternator and fired her up.....no charging....so im like Alright I Run to the store and pick up a silver voltage regulator. and come back and install it. BAM shes charging.....but now its charging too much...

I know its not the battery because I had it tested at the autoparts store. So now im thinking either the Voltage regulator I bought is Junk or the Reman Alternator is Junk....Weird thing is though if I unplug the regulator and rev the engine the AMP meter is showing a slight charge but the alternator is squealing...should that be happening?? Also while the regulator is plugged in its causing the engine to stall when i put it in gear..possibly from the alternator working too hard?

ANYways on top of that it sounds like my starter is going as well..prolly from trying to turn it over so much while trouble shooting...it has trouble trying to turn the engine over but once in awhile will turn over.

So yeah this is a horrible nightmare with the only redeming quality being that the engine runs and I think I have the timing set pretty good but until I get her on the road I won't know for sure.

ANY suggestions would be great..please help