Cam choice help!!

[mpdlawdog]

I thought I would post this over here also....I'm stuck  ...I have a 68 charger...383 4 bbl....916 heads? (stock I believe).....I had to put another motor in my car thanks to a broken wrist pin.....I bought a short block from a guy......he knew little about the motor other than it had been gone through....anyway I got it in the car...it has a BIG cam in it...I have a new edelbrock 600 on it..

I finally got it together and running...it starts and idles fine...when you go down the road and give it gas..it dies...(I have driven it twice for a short time and it happened both times)  I pulled the plugs and they were wet and there was gas in the oil...I changed the oil....I put a new coil, set the points, and a new fuel pump on it...

I thought putting a hotter spark plug might help..I have champion 14 in it now...I went to autozone and they told me 14 were the hottest?  Ideas?

Im not a mechanic...well basically im an idiot when it comes to motors...any help would be great..thanks!

I forgot to add the engine is also bored .30 if that makes a difference...

[69charger440]

Sounds like your running rich!! Well since your not a mechanic, that means that your getting to much fuel. If the spark plugs are black you need to go down a couple sizes on your carb jets. After you do that let it run while in park and then shut it off and check a spark plug from each side of the motor, if they are starting to dry up or get brown in color you headed in the right direction.

When thats complete you can set your timing. I tend it set it a 8-10 degrees for initial timing and around 36 for advanced. That will get you in the ball park and then adjust from there.

If you dont have a timing light, you can use a vacuum gauge and adjust timing and watch the vacuum gauge. If it is increasing in vacuum the keep moving SLOWLY in that direction of timing. If the engine starts to die out adjust the idle screw and continue to move timing until vacuum in stable.

You can also tell if your engine has a vacuum leak by looking at the gauge. If its bouncing all over the place then you have a leak and need to find it before you start messing with the carburetor.

-Good luck from Afghanistan-

[69charger440]

OK sorry you have and EDDY carb.

If you look at the front of the carb you will see TWO adjustment screws!! THOSE are you air/Fuel mixture adjustment screws.

Now have the car running and adjust ONE AT A TIME DOING THE FOLLOWING.

Close the right side screw all the way. COUNTING Every HALF TURN until CLOSED. Now you know where that screw was adjusted. Now adjust it (still on right screw) 5 1/2 turns out.   

Do the same thing on the left side.  When that is done both sides of the engine are getting the same A/F mixture. Now you must adjust both screws the amount. So adjust the screws until the engine is running smoothly. BUT if you move one side you gotta move the other in the same direction. And if you mess up you can always go back to step one and start over. Good luck!

[mpdlawdog]

OK sorry you have and EDDY carb.

If you look at the front of the carb you will see TWO adjustment screws!! THOSE are you air/Fuel mixture adjustment screws.

Now have the car running and adjust ONE AT A TIME DOING THE FOLLOWING.

Close the right side screw all the way. COUNTING Every HALF TURN until CLOSED. Now you know where that screw was adjusted. Now adjust it (still on right screw) 5 1/2 turns out.   

Do the same thing on the left side.  When that is done both sides of the engine are getting the same A/F mixture. Now you must adjust both screws the amount. So adjust the screws until the engine is running smoothly. BUT if you move one side you gotta move the other in the same direction. And if you mess up you can always go back to step one and start over. Good luck!

I actually did do this...no luck..

[Hissing Cobra]

It definitely sounds like you're getting too much gas. These carbs are very simple to work on! I know this because I have two of them (500 cfm) on my ford 302 motor. The first thing you need to do is buy a calibration kit for your particular carburetor. On the front part of the carburetor base, you should see some numbers, (1406, 1407, etc...) This is the model number of your carb. Buy a calibration kit for that model number and move forward to tuning your carb for best performance!

Here's a link for you to click on. It's the owner's manual that comes with all Edelbrock carbs and inside, it'll show you how to tune it yourself! If you already have it, disregard this link!

http://carburetor-manual.com/edelbrock-carburetor-service-owners-manual-a-68.html

Anyway, the two idle mixture screws on the front of the Carburetor come set from the factory at 1.5 turns out. With the engine off, turn both screws clockwise until they stop. Do not force them past the stopping point! Now, back each screw out counter clockwise 3 half turns from their starting point. This will give you a base setting. Now you can hook up a vacuum gauge, start the car and play with the screws up to a half turn each way to get higher vacuum readings and a smoother idle. Do one screw at a time to achieve the highest vacuum reading for each side.

Now we'll move onto the pump squirter on the top right front corner of your carb. This pump squirter has three holes in it, with a rod going through one of the holes. This pump squirter controls how much fuel squirts into the carburetor. In the lowest hole, it'll squirt less fuel, while in the top hole, it'll squirt the most. Just to let you know, my car would load up at idle with too much fuel when mine were in the top hole. I would constantly have to rev the motor to keep it from choking while waiting at red lights. After I moved the rods to the lowest holes, that problem cleared itself up.

If you've done both of these changes and haven't seen good results, you may have to move on to the Metering Rods, Springs, and Jets in the front half of the carburetor. To get a good understanding of the jets and rods, picture a donut with a pole going down through the center hole. The donut is your jet and the pole is your metering rod. The thickness of the metering rod going down through the hole in the jet, will control how much fuel is going to get burned. If you have a thick metering rod to take up more space in the jet, you'll get less fuel. If you have a thin metering rod taking up less space, it'll get more fuel because the opening is larger. The jets and metering rods can be changed to get the desired effect of power, driveability, fuel mileage, etc... At idle, these rods are in the "down" position, closing the hole in the jets and allowing less fuel to pass through. When you apply pressure to the gas pedal, the rods move upward, allowing more fuel to pass through the jets. This is your "crusing" mode. How do the rods move upward? There is a spring attached to them that operates by vacuum. These can be changed so that the rods "Pop" up faster or slower, depending upon what your needs are. If they pop open too slowly, you could have a lean stumble or surging problem. If they pop open too quickly, you could have a rich bog problem.

The secondary jets only work on wide open throttle (foot to the floor) and those will need to be changed if you're having issues at WOT. Otherwise, you may not even have to touch them.

I can't stress how important it is to buy the calibration kit and read the owner's manual. Inside the owner's manual, Edelbrock has taken the time to chart out jet/metring rod combinations that may work for you. They also show what happens when you match certain jet sizes to certain metering rods sizes and how they affect driveability, etc... They're all right there in the owner's manual! My suggestion is to make sure that all the stock parts and settings are back to where they came from the factory (jet sizes, metering rods, springs, idle scre adjustments, pump squirter adjustment. Once you have it back to stock settings, you can use that manual to point you in the right direction.

I've had two of these on my 302 in my Mustang Cobra that runs 12.50's @ 111 mph for the past seven years. I drive it on the street about 5,000 miles per year and the driveability and performance is awesome. There's no loading up, surging, stumbling, choking, etc... and I had two to tune. It runs excellent and is fast as hell!

Good luck!

[skip68]

Hey Mr law dog, is there any way you can find out what cam and/or specs on the cam?

[mpdlawdog]

Hey Mr law dog, is there any way you can find out what cam and/or specs on the cam?

not without taking it out..which I dont really want to do unless I have to....the guy who built the motor died..

[doctor4766]

OMG you didn't like him did you?



























JK

[mpdlawdog]

OK...I finally got a chance to work on it yesterday...thanks for the help so far guys....
I pulled the sender out of the gas tank and took the sock off...it was hard and full of crap!
Drove it down the road and it bogged down again.
I went back and adjusted the carb (mix screws 5 1/2 out) and changed the voltage reg to my old one.
Drove it again and the same thing happened.

I put a clear fuel filter on it....it doesnt seem to get very much fuel in it..not sure if that is normal or not..

me neighbor is coming over later with his vacuum guage to help...will see

I'm starting to think the cam is way to big for the engine and creating 0 vaccum  

the pic I added is the amount of fuel in the fiter while it is running.....

[doctor4766]

Don't get me started on cams.
If you're unsure of the cam spec I'd pull it and fit a known grind camshaft in it's place.
At least you can eliminate the risk of having the problems that I had when Mancini's supplied the wrong spec cam on the right part numbered box! (might just add again that this issue is over 12 months old now and I still have had no resolution from them!!!)
Cams are cheap and it will only take a few hours to swap it over to a grind that you will get some decent vacuum out of. If this cam is as BIG as you you're guessing (from your first post) the 600 may be struggling to cope with it too.

[terrible one]

If that's a picture of the filter while running, that's the problem. You found that the sock on the sending unit was full of crap. The thing is, even if you cleaned it, all that crap is still floating around in the tank ready to clog te pickup again. At this point I would drop the tank and clean it out.  

[resq302]

I agree.  Judging by the picture, I would say you either have a fuel supply problem (meaning crap in the tank is clogging up the sock filter again or a restriction in the the supply line OR your fuel pump is on its way out and not creating enough suction to pull enough gas through the lines from the tank.

[FLG]

I agree..usually the filter is almost completely full.

If you want to just test you can always run a hose to a gas can and see how it runs....just be careful.

It could be either a clogged line, fuel pump problem, or possibly a fuel pump rod problem. Running it to a can will better narrow it down.

[mhinders]

Usually a BIG cam and "idles fine" is difficult to achieve, with the possible exception of a fuel injected engine.

If you have low vaccum with the big cam, you may need to disconnect the vacuum hose to the distributor and plug it on the carb side, and never connect it again. You may need a lot of initial timing (say 24 degrees), and may need to limit the mechanical advance in the distributor. In a Holley you need to change the power valve, don't know the Edelbrock carb if it has any corresponding functions.
Martin

[skip68]

    anything yet?   

[Hissing Cobra]

Yes, idling fine with a big cam usually only happens when you turn the idle up. I've got my Ford 302 idling at 1,100 rpms and it's fine there. Anything lower than that and it'll idle like crap, the brakes won't work too well, and possible stalling will result.

[mpdlawdog]

OK...1st of all thanks for all the help and ideas......I drove the car for the 1st time yesterday ...yes I smiled the whole time...heres what I did...

new carb (still a 600 but took the other one back and exchanged it)
new fuel lines
new fuel pump
new fuel pressure guage

I stated it up and the fuel pressure guage said 0 again...I almost pushed it in my front yard with a for sale sign on it  .........it sat and idled fine

anyway....I knew it had to be something stuid so I drained some gas and pulled the sending unit out....I blew it out with some air and to my surprise a rusty ford fender came out...it was that bad...anyway the fuel pressure guage went to 3 pounds and off I went....

still no power brakes which SUCKS but she goes down the road with easy!  Im guessing that is still the cam issue....She started running alittle hot (230 degrees) so Im guessing I need to boil the radiator out and take the thermostat out and see what is going on......have to love old cars!!  Thanks again for the ideas!

[skip68]

Hey lawdawg, you should have more than 3 lbs but it sounds like you're on the right path.   230 degrees!   Ouch!  Check your timing and the cooling system like you said.   What do your plugs look like ?   Could be lean.   Good luck.   
Oh, don't forget to tell yourself this is fun and smile.      You will get it figured out and it will be worth it in the end.  I think most guys here go through a little bit of hell with these cars until the end.   I know I did.   Don't let it get you down,  it's just nuts & bolts.   Cams are only a couple hundred bucks and easy to change with the engine in the car.  Ask Ron (firefighter) about a cam choice.  He is the man. 

Chuck ......

[mpdlawdog]

Hey lawdawg, you should have more than 3 lbs but it sounds like you're on the right path.   230 degrees!   Ouch!  Check your timing and the cooling system like you said.   What do your plugs look like ?   Could be lean.   Good luck.   
Oh, don't forget to tell yourself this is fun and smile.      You will get it figured out and it will be worth it in the end.  I think most guys here go through a little bit of hell with these cars until the end.   I know I did.   Don't let it get you down,  it's just nuts & bolts.   Cams are only a couple hundred bucks and easy to change with the engine in the car.  Ask Ron (firefighter) about a cam choice.  He is the man. 

Chuck ......

I took the radiator to a shop and had them boil the crap out of it...I put it all together and  took the car into town last night...the first real drive...45 minutes and them so....the car is defently BIG...it lunges forward at the stop light but it sounds sooooooo good!  anyway she ran great...as I was leaving town, I noticed the temp guage was creaping up again...I checked it today and it didnt look like the fluid was flowing like yesterday...I laughed and shut the hood and started working on the power windows....started another thread....love old cars...love old cars....love old cars....love old cars....

[mpdlawdog]

OK i give up!!!  time for a new cam...this one is way too big for what I need (0 vacuum= 0 brakes on drums all the way around among other things)....can anyone give me some ideas on a cam choice?  My buddy who works on my stuff said to get a stock 440 six pack cam.....the engine (383) is  bored .30 over...edelbrock 600....stock manifolds.....stock intake...stock heads

I LOVE the way it sounds and shakes the car at idle and it sounds awsome going down the road but I give up and want someting I can drive on a frequent basis.......but would like something that has some lump to it....

any suggestions would help...thanks in advance.

by the way I dont know how big the current cam is...I bought the short block off a a guy who bought it at an estate sale from a mopar engine guy who died

[skip68]

Ron will need to know what gears you have and stall converter if any.   Do you have headers?   What are you looking for out of your engine far as power.?     I had a cam that was to big and I went with a smaller cam (comp solid 272) and gained a ton of power.   

[mpdlawdog]

I am trying to keep it as stock looking as possible so it has stock manifolds, stock intake, edelbrock 600 carb, 323 suregrip rear, stock 727 with stock converter.....stock 916 heads with no work done to them...I know the 383 was bored out at sometime to .30....just want my power brakes to work....it is too big of a car to stop with two feet and a prayer....as far as profromance, I just want to cruise and the occasional street brawl..no track stuff...I LOVE the rumble and sound of the cam in it but it is WAY too much...i wish I knew what was in it now but I have no way to tell....
I called lunati and they suggested this..........I am assuming I need to change the lifters also...any help would be great...

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1563&gid=277
"Street Master Cam - Chrysler 361-440 275/275
Product Description
These camshafts are computer designed to take advantage of maximum area under the curve without destroying valvetrain components.
Hydraulic, fair idle. Excellent cam for 440 cubic inch motors with increased carburetion or six pack. Will work with stock or 2000 RPM stall converter.

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 275/275
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 225/225
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .477/.477
•LSA/ICL: 108/104
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 2000-5500
•Includes: Cam Only

Part Number: 07301

Jobber Price: $138.20"

I also found this one through jegs
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2192/10002/-1?parentProductId=
Edelbrock 2192 - Edelbrock Performer-Plus Camshaft & Lifter Kit Details
Chrysler Performer-Plus Camshaft Kit

Duration Advertised 270° Intake/280° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' 204° Intake/214° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .420'' Intake/.442'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam .280'' Intake/.295'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 112°
Intake Centerline 107°
Intake Timing @ .050"  Open 5° ATDC
Close 29° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050"  Open 44° BBDC
Close 10° BTDC

cam specs are 268/284* ad , 228/241* @ .050, .450 / .458 lift, 115* CL

[PFA42]

I would go with the first choice there... the lunati.  Someone already mentioned it and I will again... you need to touch base with Firefighter3931 aka Ron.

I'm no expert but IMO you definitely need to match up everything in the valve train (cam, lifters, pushrod length, etc...) Just my 2 cents.

PFA