Question: Should Classic Muscle Cars Be Kept Low-Tech?

[Rustymuscle]

This is the subject of my latest Editorial on StreetLegalTV.com. Click Below to Read the Article and Voice Your Opinion Here!
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/features/editorials-opinions/kevin-shaw-keeping-it-intentionally-low-tech/



I've been giving a lot of thought to the twenty-year-old dull-green Holley 4150 4-barrel sitting on my workbench in my cramped, single-car garage. Amazingly, this small, nondescript part speaks volumes about my taste in cars, what I think of muscle cars, and who I am as a car person. The 670cfm carburetor is purposefully low-tech. This Holley is a mechanical double-pumper, opening up the secondaries at the snap of the throttle, not when a rubber diaphragm registers a prescribed vacuum draw. There's no guesswork. It's all screws, pins, and springs. It's gloriously unrefined. It's old school, exactly how I like my classic muscle cars.



Light 'em up,
Kevin Shaw
Editor
StreetLegalTV.com

[Ghoste]

I think there is room for both.

[RD]

i think the modification of vehicles has no bounds based upon the owner's creativity.  new tech means new opportunities for expression if you ask me.  change = diversity = excitement.

[adauto]

I'm of the- it's YOUR car make it like YOU want it school! Its all good!

[Roger 68 charger]

I think there is room for both.

[vancamp]

I think there is room for both.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

To each their own, but for myself when it comes to cars such as my Super Bee and Charger I tend to be low tech and old school.  If I ever build a hot rod it'll have a flat head, or a hemi, or nail head, etc. with multiple carbs, definitely not a belly button motor with EFI. My

P.S. I enjoyed the article, and I relate.

[bull]

My theory is that you keep it original in the areas that count (aesthetics) while upgrading those things that really matter. To me safety is a biggie so things like disc brakes and radial tires are a must. The main thing in my book is that it look as original as possible while adding in desired generational touches and safety improvements. There are some things you probably can't go back to. Paint comes to mind as one. As far as I know it would be pretty difficult to replicate the type of low tech paint that was used in 1968 but I'm not totally sure that's the kind of thing you're talking about.

Back to an earlier point, by "generational touches" I mean things that were "in" when I was a kid. A guy 20 years older than me might like skinny redline tires with hub caps and a guy 20 years younger might like 18" rims and rubber band tires. Me, I like the wide, meaty RWL treads with 15" Magnums or the dog dish setup. In general though I think it's a bad idea to mess with the overall aesthetic design of a classic Charger. Some of those high-end builds come to mind, especially that two-tone gold and black thing that's been shortened and tweaked too much and went unsold several times on Ebay.

[tan top]

I think there is room for both.

        

[doctor4766]

A couple of times I've had to stave off suggestions of dropping a new 5.7 or 6.1L HEMI into my '69 Charger. When asked why not, I reply, "Because it's a '69 Charger." I guess that kind of traditionalist obstinateness just doesn't communicate to people who just don't get it.

Yep, agreed

[TruckDriver]

I think there is room for both.

        

I'd love to have a 2nd gen Charger that would handle like a new Charger, Vette or Mustang. 

[elacruze]

"The struggle for definition is veritably the struggle for life itself." -Thomas Szasz

High- or low-tech. By definition, technology is the study of devices and processes, not a noun.

That old Holley is high-tech compared to the stock carburetor, isn't it? If it wasn't better, you wouldn't care to change it right?
Modern spark plug wires are another example. Cylinder head ports and combustion chambers are computer designed and tested.

At what point is a computer considered unacceptable improvement, but computer designed mechanical devices are ok?

Ghoste is closest in my view-aesthetics is what we're really chasing, and EFI for example is one thing that is significantly different aesthetically from stock. So is a new crate Hemi.

It isn't the quality or performance of the tech that's at issue, it's the appearance. I don't know anyone who wouldn't like their carbureted, points-distributor motor to run like it had electronic engine management.

[bakerhillpins]

I think there is room for both.

        

I'd love to have a 2nd gen Charger that would handle like a new Charger, Vette or Mustang. 

me 6.

For me its a question of age. When I was younger all the new stuff was king (Ok I'm not that old when all things are considered).. it was cool to be on the edge. Life was much more simple when I was younger, at least from my POV. Now that I have the proverbial 3 kids/mortgage/bills/etc life isn't so simple. Its, work, run the kids here, fix this, deal with that problem... So I like my toys to be "simple" and typically that relates to older tech because I relate that to when I was younger.  "back in the old days" as it were.

[defiance]

You can probably guess my answer from this pic of my "440":




(note the fuel rails, big throttle body, ls2 style coils, etc...  The distributor is actually *almost* redundant.  A crank sensor (just left of the crank pulley) picks up the teeth of the 36-1 wheel epoxied to the back of the crank pulley for crank position, and the distributor has only one tooth remaining on its internal vr sensor, which is used to send cam position relative to crank (basically, is the crank's TDC on the compression or exhaust stroke?).  That feeds position info into a megaquirt MS3/MS3x box, which uses that along with info from the dual oxygen sensors and all the standard temp/tps/ect sensors to control sequential injection (42lb/hr injectors) & spark  (ls2 coils), as well as closed loop idle control via IAC.

Although it still started with a 440 block... so there is that ....







I definitely understand and respect the desire to keep it all "low-tech", I just didn't want to go that route with my own

[elacruze]

You can probably guess my answer from this pic of my "440":
<snip>
Although it still started with a 440 block... so there is that ....







I definitely understand and respect the desire to keep it all "low-tech", I just didn't want to go that route with my own

I've sent you a PM, I'm going the same direction...
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,73529.new.html#new

[Vainglory, Esq.]

My theory is that you keep it original in the areas that count (aesthetics) while upgrading those things that really matter. To me safety is a biggie so things like disc brakes and radial tires are a must. The main thing in my book is that it look as original as possible while adding in desired generational touches and safety improvements. There are some things you probably can't go back to. Paint comes to mind as one. As far as I know it would be pretty difficult to replicate the type of low tech paint that was used in 1968 but I'm not totally sure that's the kind of thing you're talking about.

Bull and I completely agree.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think "hidden" upgrades like brakes, modern tires, seat belts, suspension bits, engine internals, etc. are very important, but it's also important that they don't draw attention away from what the car is supposed to look like. 

I'd also like to see someone make a nice EFI unit that could fit perfectly under the stock Hemi air cleaner.  I'd probably buy it.

[bakerhillpins]

Finally got the page to load, Kept timing out earlier.

Why stick with something so outdated?" Taking in a long, slow breath, he said, "Kid, it's not about horsepower. If we all wanted horsepower, we'd all be running blown alcohol motors. It's about style. It's about class. These are hot rods. And hot rods have flathead Fords."
I can remember the look of pity on his face; a look communicating that, whatever it was, I surely didn't get it. It's taken me years since that evening to really get what Mark meant.

Something I hope I can impart to my kids! 

[SFRT]

I like my car to look lo-tech, but have modern electronics, brakes and so on.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[tan top]

I like my car to look lo-tech, but have modern electronics, brakes and so on.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[41husk]

I am looking for a 70s 6cyl or 318 for my daughter for that reason.  She has an 02 VW beetle that parts cost a fortune and they are difficult to work on.  I plan on selling that as soon as I find somrthing that I can maintain.

[mikesbbody]

Like Ghoste said, room for both I think if everyone's car was stone stock that would be kinda boring! but it would suck if there were no original or survivor cars at all. But I do think you can over do the mod cons ask yourself "do I want a old car to drive like new" or "should I buy a new Challenger"?
I never thought I would like oversized wheels but over time my tastes changed I have some 17's (not on the car) I would have 17 front and 18 rear but no bigger that's just my  and that God awful Charger on EBay Bull talked about? that in my opinion is too much 

[Brock Lee]

I like keeping my Charger as low tech as possible. That is the attraction. It reminds e of "normal" cars I ride around in as a kid. I even have the stock radio in it. I want the whole old experience.

But there are areas it was simply best to upgrade. I dealt with points until about 4 years ago. It was a matter of less maintenance, so I went to electronic ignition. The brakes are fine with me, but i don't race. Some guys want to fix stuff that suits them perfectly just impress car guys.

[71charger_fan]

If I ever get the funding for such a project, I'm putting an SRT-8 drivetrain in my '71. However, the five years of payments for my SRT-8 will probably ensure that'll never happen.