Ron, I need you for cam help----------------------------------------------------

[skip68]

Ok, this is the deal...  As you may remember I've got that P.O.S. MP 292/292/509 cam in my 446.   I am now F*^'ing done with it for good.     The guy at the speed shop I got my wires from wants to do some promo/ad stuff with my General Lee and I told him no problem.   He is a Summit dealer and I figured he and I can do some horse trading.       So, I want to get a complete package deal on cam, lifters, rods, springs and timing chain.     I want to go with a solid cam.        I want the best torque around 3,000 to 4,000 rpm I can get with the smoothest idle for a perfect solid and dependable street ponder.

Here is my current build:
446
mighty demon 750
torker II intake
Indy style stage 5 ported heads
MP292/509 hyd. cam
crane gold 1.5 roller rockers
double roller timing chain
Ross race pistons 10.25 to one comp.
stock rods
All ARP bolts
Clevit bearings
Forged Mopar performance crank
Stock elec distributor/ changing to MSD 8546 dist
MSD 6AL box
MSD blaster 2 coil
Taylor 10.5 wires
NGK XR5's gapped at .050

There you go sir.   I will be getting gears someday.    I just hope I can talk Mike into helping me do the install.      

Thank's,  Chuck...........

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron is da man for the hi-po Mopar cams and all other go fast Mopar Stuff, and since our builds are very similar maybe he will recommend the same Engle Cam K58/K60 he prevously recommended for me:

Here is info on that cam and the only thing its on a 110 lsa at .050, so it wil have a nice hot rod lope at idle  (not sure if you want that but was told by Ron and another very knowlegable soul here, Rolling Thunder, that this cam would work great and have great street manners).  For what its worth Rolling Thunder used this exact cam on a 440 he built, 10:5 to 1 compression, with Eddy heads that made 539HP and around 548 ft lbs of torque.

Let's see what Ron recommends for you but here is a start for you on the aforementioned Engle Cam and I am quoting Ron directly on this:


"K58 is 230*@.050 & .520 lift
K60 is 238*@.050 & .534 lift

Both of these lobes will work with an OEM non adjustable rocker arm  

Ron"


To the poster of this thread:

HERE IS THE THREAD HERE (look at post #4 from Rolling Thunder) where the car craft article is discussed about how to make NICE power out of your 440 ci Mopar.  The aforementioned Engle Cam is what Rolling Thunder used to achieve his results and I have personally confirmed that with him.  If you have not seen this its a killer article and thread in the proven engine section here.  Enjoy!  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37136.0.html

[firefighter3931]

Chuck ; remind me again what stall speed and rear end gearing is in your GL ?

Are those rockers 1.5's or 1.6's ?



Ron

[skip68]

B&M 3000 stall and I still have the 2.76 open rear.     I did find a 489 case with 3.73 open gears.   I might snag it if I can do some trading.   Right now that's all I can do is horse trading.       In the end I think I want to have 3.73 or 3.91 gears.   I don't have funds to do much so I really want to take advantage of this promoting the guys shop with my car.        I have another shop in town that has a Dyno and he told me when I was ready to call and we can do the same deal there.       He'll do a dyno tune on my car in exchange for having my car there for a weekend or something.    :yesnod    I just want good power and reliability.       The rockers are 1.6 ooops,  They are 1.5 rockers..   After talking to Mike I think I want to go with his cam.   He says it would be perfect for my car since we have real close to the same builds.   

[skip68]

    After talking with Mike, the only real difference in our motors is he has eddy heads with no porting and I've got cast custom fully ported stage 5 heads. (what ever the hell that means)      So it's a wash I'm guessing and our heads are making more or less the same power.   He does have headers and I don't yet but I will someday.   So that being said, I'm guessing that cam would put me over 500 hp and over 500 ft lbs of trq.   To me it sounds great and Mike tells me it will idle smoother, be easier to tune and streetable than the 108 lsa MP crap that's in my car.            I like this idea as long as it's going to run good for a mostly street drivin car.   I'll need to get some Bud lite and coax Mike over to help.   

Chuck...........

[firefighter3931]

B&M 3000 stall and I still have the 2.76 open rear.     I did find a 489 case with 3.73 open gears.   I might snag it if I can do some trading.   Right now that's all I can do is horse trading.       In the end I think I want to have 3.73 or 3.91 gears.   I don't have funds to do much so I really want to take advantage of this promoting the guys shop with my car.        I have another shop in town that has a Dyno and he told me when I was ready to call and we can do the same deal there.       He'll do a dyno tune on my car in exchange for having my car there for a weekend or something.    :yesnod    I just want good power and reliability.       The rockers are 1.6 ooops,  They are 1.5 rockers..   After talking to Mike I think I want to go with his cam.   He says it would be perfect for my car since we have real close to the same builds.   

Which engine are you talking about....the one in his Charger or the one in the Coronet ?

Mike's Charger has 4.10+ Gears and a 3500+ stall....neither of which you have. 

I'm thinking a hyd flat tappet cam would be the better choice so you don't have to pull the valvecovers and adjust the lash.


The one i have in mind is the Comp XE274H....better street manners and lots of torque where you need it. 




Ron

[firefighter3931]

   After talking with Mike, the only real difference in our motors is he has eddy heads with no porting and I've got cast custom fully ported stage 5 heads. (what ever the hell that means)      So it's a wash I'm guessing and our heads are making more or less the same power.   He does have headers and I don't yet but I will someday.   So that being said, I'm guessing that cam would put me over 500 hp and over 500 ft lbs of trq.   To me it sounds great and Mike tells me it will idle smoother, be easier to tune and streetable than the 108 lsa MP crap that's in my car.            I like this idea as long as it's going to run good for a mostly street drivin car.   I'll need to get some Bud lite and coax Mike over to help.   

Chuck...........

Without knowing the flow numbers on your heads or what was done to them....it's difficult to predict what kind of power the motor will make. You have to use a very well ported factory head to equal an out of the box RPM and those still don't have the closed chamber for tight quench. What i'm saying is that it's difficult (and expensive > $1200 in portwork) to get the same level of performance out of a stock head that you would get out of the Eddy's. There's also the retainer to valveguide clearance issue to contend with...unless the guides have been trimmed down you're limited to .510 lift at the valve....whereas the Edelbrock heads are good for .700 lift with the right valvesprings installed.

The exhaust system comes into play as well....manifolds don't like tight lobed cam profiles. It's no wonder that car performs so poorly...the combo is terribly mismatched. 


Ron

[skip68]

The XE274H looks ok.   Do you have any idea of how much torque and when ? My heads are closed chambers.  Will that cam give me loads more torque ?   I still think a solid cam gets you better performance and won't bug me a bit to have one.    What do you think about this cam, XS274S ?      Thanks Ron.       

Just so you know, this guy can order me other cams besides what Summit has.   So if you think of another brand of cam let me know.   

[firefighter3931]

The XE274H looks ok.   Do you have any idea of how much torque and when ? My heads are closed chambers.  Will that cam give me loads more torque ?   I still think a solid cam gets you better performance and won't bug me a bit to have one.    What do you think about this cam, XS274S ?      Thanks Ron.       

Just so you know, this guy can order me other cams besides what Summit has.   So if you think of another brand of cam let me know.   

The XS274s solid is the same cam in the solid lifter version....it'll work great but you'll need new pushrods with that swapover. 

Either cam will work with your existing combination and be a nice upgrade over the MP509....definately a step in the right direction. 



Ron

[skip68]

    Sounds good to me Ron.   I hate the cam I have now so bad but, It does come to life over 3000 rpm and smokes the tires pretty well.    I do like doing that still a bit.   I guess I'm still a kid.      Mike got me all excited by telling me that his cam (the one that's in the Coronet now) will work great in my car.  I told him last night that I think I would still be over cammed but he said no.   He said that the 108 lsa on mine was killing me and the 110 lsa on his would work just fine.   All I really want is to be able to have my car run good, do some tire smoke time to time and still have some kind of balls.    Will this new cam shred the tires and put me back in the seat ?       Again, thanks so much.  Oh, I want to get new push rods anyway.   I've had a lifter issue on one of my cylinders and I think the rod is bent.   When I was spinning the rod I could tell it felt bent so I will get all new ones.   Do you think I need to get new springs and a timming gear set ?   I think I've got about 4500 miles on this motor.  Right now it has a double roller chain.  Should it be fine ?    Thank's again Godfather of DC.com....    

[1Bad70Charger]

If you really want a solid stick why not also consider the solid cam that appears to be 100% streetable and made big power and HUGE TORQUE, as referenced in the car craft article below.

When making VERY important decisions it always makes a lot of sense to go with a proven combo that is battle tested, and has made the power and results featured in a specfic big time magazine article about how to make BIG power on a 440 build:

Here it solid cam from Lunati, which is referenced in this article and thread, and the cam certainly is fairly modest and not too crazy at all, on a 110 lsa, at .050, and might be perfect for your goals and objectives.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37136.0.html

[skip68]

When my motor was built I was thinking about going with eddy heads but the guy at the shop said mine would flow just as good so don't spend the money unless you want less weight.   They are closed chambered and ported so they would probably be fine for that cam.  But, I think I'm going to go with what Ron say's.   I'm sure it will be more of what I really need out of my engine and make me happy.   

[firefighter3931]

If you really want a solid stick why not also consider the solid cam that appears to be 100% streetable and made big power and HUGE TORQUE, as referenced in the car craft article below.

When making VERY important decisions it always makes a lot of sense to go with a proven combo that is battle tested, and has made the power and results featured in a specfic big time magazine article about how to make BIG power on a 440 build:

Here it solid cam from Lunati, which is referenced in this article and thread, and the cam certainly is fairly modest and not too crazy at all, on a 110 lsa, at .050, and might be perfect for your goals and objectives.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37136.0.html

The cam in that article isn't really all that street friendly....the lobes are very agressive .904 lifter profiles and need special attention for street driving. I prefer something a little less radical in terms of ramp speed....less strain on the valvetrain and less chance of wiping the cam out. If you ever wipe a cam and fill the engine with metal you'll be in for a world of trouble...it's basicly rebuild time when that happens. 


Chuck, if you're really wanting to go solid cam the XS274S is my choice for your combination....hands down  The torque peak lines up better with your 3000 rpm stall speed and it will make more power down low than Mike's cam does. His heads flow better up top and he has more stall and gearing so the XS282S is the right cam for his combination. I really feel you'd be happier with the 274 grind.


Ron

[skip68]

   I've thought about it alot today and that's what I want to do Ron.  

XS274S is the cam.      So do I need to change my springs ?  I still need to get new rods so what rods does Summit have for that cam ?   
 Thank's again.    

[1Bad70Charger]

 I've thought about it alot today and that's what I want to do Ron.  

XS274S is the cam.      So do I need to change my springs ?  I still need to get new rods so what rods does Summit have for that cam ?   
 Thank's again.    

SMART MAN going with Ron's recommendation, good luck with the build! 

[Back N Black]

Chuck, i have the cam Ron suggested for you. I'm making just shy of 500 hp and 550 ft lb of torque, i do have the eddy heads.

[skip68]

    I think I will be very happy with the new setup.   Those are good numbers.       If I can even get close to 500 ft lbs of torque I'll be very happy. 

[firefighter3931]

 I've thought about it alot today and that's what I want to do Ron.  

XS274S is the cam.      So do I need to change my springs ?  I still need to get new rods so what rods does Summit have for that cam ?   
 Thank's again.    

Chuck,

Without know what valvesprings are in your car now i can't say whether or not they are compatible with the XS274S. I do know that the Comp #911 will work fine with that grind and will fit perfectly with your stock retainers and valve locks....no head mods required.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-911-16/

Push rods : 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-64622-16/


Ron

[Doright]

I wanna see the chassis dyno numbers

I got a feeling there's Gonna be some  going on

[skip68]

That's coming soon Dennis.       Thanks to Doright, I was able to get the new bearings installed.   He had the tool to do it.   

[firefighter3931]

That's coming soon Dennis.       Thanks to Doright, I was able to get the new bearings installed.   He had the tool to do it.   

Thanks for stepping up Doright....nice work !  Kudos to Vegas Mike for wrenching & tuning assistance with this project. Mike is a stand up guy and has become quite the wrench over the past few years. 

Chuck, i'm 100% sure you will like this cam much better than the purple junk that was in there before. 


Ron

[Doright]

Yep Mike was the driving factor in getting this one going again Chuck owes him BIG TIME!

I was seriously impressed how fast they got it back together!
I am swamped with projects or I could have helped more but I have to get the Ford done and out the door 

[Dans 68]

Yep Mike was the driving factor in getting this one going again Chuck owes him BIG TIME!

I was seriously impressed how fast they got it back together!
I am swamped with projects or I could have helped more but I have to get the Ford done and out the door 

Without Mike there would be no Chuck....   I'm looking forward to MATS and getting together with all of you. 

DAn

[skip68]

Without Mike there would be no Chuck....   I'm looking forward to MATS and getting together with all of you. 

DAn

Yep, He's my special friend.   

[Doright]

Yep, He's my special friend.   

That just doesnt sound right