Really, how much is it to work on a Chevy 350?

[Troy]

My sister (with help from her husband) just blew up their 1997 Suburban by running it severely low on antifreeze. I guess he got sidetracked after some maintenance and forgot to finish filling it. The shop they took it to mentioned having the heads machined and checked for cracks and the "best case" scenario (if they didn't need new parts) would be $2,713. I know I've seen running Chevy 350s for a couple hundred dollars. Checking eBay reveals a lot of remanufactured engines with warranty for $1,100-1,800. Rebuilt Vortec heads are around $400. Rather than messing with the old heads wouldn't it be easier (and cheaper) to replace the whole engine (there's lots of water in the oil)?

They are a bit gun shy of going the cheap route since they just put nearly $4,000 into a $2,200 Jetta and it still leaks from every seal on the car. They don't really have any money any way and, even worse, they still owe money on the Suburban.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Don't they sell Chev 350 remans at just about every convenience store for about a hundred bucks?

I know what you're saying though but surely you can illustrate the difference to them between Chevy repairs and Jetta ones?

[charger_fan_4ever]

If they plan on holding on to the burban long term I'd think a complete rebuilt motor is the way to go. By the time the shop rips it down,gasket kit yada yada price will be probably close to a complete engine.

[b5blue]

Your right on...why bother....pop a re-man in. 

[Ryan]

Its a 97 so it has a LT1 in it, head gaskets on those are a pain in the a$$, and the labor rate they are charging reflects that. I agree with the others on buying a reman engine, and having that swaped in.

[Cooter]

See, what ya'll don't understand about shops and the higher prices is the fact that if the shop does that job for what they HAVE TO do it for, it will come with a warranty...Usually, 1 year parts and labor...Sure, you can go out and find Joe blow shadetree and pop a reman in it, but if something goes wrong like a Check Engine light that just won't go off, or a F.I. problem, you are SOL....

At the shop, we have to cover EVERY concievable angle so the customer doesn't say sh*t like "Well, you guys were the last to work on it and now my Wipers don't work"..."Ma'am, all we did was an oil change and rotate tires??"

People when they find themselves in a heap of sh*t, they look to fling it on someone else quick... like your buddy there with that coolant flush, or whatever..If it were done at a professional shop, it would be covered and he wouldn't be dumpin' in a Reman engine....The days of the shadetree mechanic are over...Yeah, there are some things you can do, but mostly, we see the "Hell, I can do that for WAY less" and it comes back with a bucket of parts and bolts...I have one customer that refuses to understand he just can't fix his car and when he brings it in, it's usually something he has tried to repair himself and screwed it up major....I once had a customer come in on the hook with a 2005 Ford Exploder with that STUPID 4.0 liter single overhead cam V6 engine with no less than 5 Timing chains..He didn't understand why it was gonna cost $4500.00 to put a Timing chain in his V6 engine..His words were something like "WHAT!? You want how much to put in a Timing Chain?" I explained that that perticular engine had a timing chain in the REAR OF THE ENGINE and the engine had to come out...He refused to believe it so, I showed him a picture of all the T-Chains in that engine..Said he's gotta guy that'll put an engine in it for less..I said "go right ahead"...Well, same vehicle comes back about 3 months later on the hook AGAIN...He states "I got the engine put in by a friend on the side and something's not right"...I ask'd Why, what's it doing/not doing?"
He stated that the 4WD didn't work after his buddy installed the engine and the check engine light stays on now, so I looked at it and scanned it for codes.....This thing had about 15 Different codes..I popped the hood and what I saw, I'll never forget......
This "Buddy" of his installed the junkyard engine that had the harnesses cut and hacked, right in the vehicle and ran the harness for the vehicle right over top the junkyard harness which got tangled up in the harmonic balancer and ripped the harness out of the vehicle...I was amazed it even ran!

This guy had NO IDEA his engine was as poorly installed and was pissed to say the least...He stated right before he left that he wished he'd just let us handle it, as now we have to completely remove the engine and repair the harness and HOPE it didn't burn up any drivers in the PCM...Oh yeah, his buddy charged him $2000.00 to install the engine on the side at his house..Our price? $2500.00 to install his supplied engine with no warranty...Total cost to repair the damage? $1200-$1500.00 on top of the $2000.00 he's already in the engine install as his "Buddy" said "Take it to a shop, I'm done with it"....

If there's water in the oil, those bearings took a beating...Replace the engine and get a warranty...

[b5blue]

I knew when I saw you replied it was gonna be good Cooter!   

[Cooter]

I knew when I saw you replied it was gonna be good Cooter!    

What's the number one question ask'd of peoples mechanic?

"What's the best car to buy?"
Translation..."What's the best car I can buy for cheap, drive it like I stole it, don't do ANYTHING to it for 200K miles, and resell it for alomost as much as I paid for it?"

Reply: "None of 'em"...Wanna guess how much a BRAND NEW Auto trans for a 1994 BMW Sedan is from Hamburg Germany? 

[68charger383]

I know in CA we have the recycler similar to buy lines etc. which usually runs ads for places that will pull & swap out rebuilt motors with warranty etc. for cheaper than the price mentioned for heads. Might want to check on something like that in your area, might be the way to go.

You should have something similar to this paper in your area.
http://www.recycler.com/services/san-dimas-ca

Ex 3.4 installed $1,295 with 36K warranty
Olds 350 for $1,395 with 36K warranty  http://www.recycler.com/Details/-32123901
4.8 for $1,795 with 36K warranty http://www.recycler.com/Details/-32123512

[Troy]

Don't need a lecture and it's too late to care about who is to blame Cooter. However, I will say the Jetta was worked on by a "professional" and now it's at another shop fixing the mess the first one left it in. Yes, this particular problem was self inflicted - I think he replaced a hose which appears to be sealing perfectly fine. Not filling it correctly could have been done by anyone. I once drained 5 quarts of oil out of an Isuzu just to get the level down to full on the dipstick. That was the one and only time I payed someone to change my oil (it was a full service repair shop).

My question was mainly if it makes more sense to replace the entire engine as an assembly rather than dealing with the labor to disassemble half the engine to replace parts they don't even know are bad? I know I blew a head gasket in one of my old trucks and shortly after I put it back together the rod bearings seized. No one mentioned that the water/antifreeze in the oil would cause that to happen (not even the shops that I got quotes from). The "experts" would still be doing all the work in this case - just different work. I got a quote from Jasper and they want $2,400 for the engine so maybe that's why the shop decided it would be cheaper to just look at the heads.

Another one of my "I can screw it up myself for a lot less" stories: I paid a local muffler shop for a new dual exhaust on my 454 Suburban. After I got it home I noticed the oil filter seemed awfully close to the new pipe (ie. directly above it - facing down). I waited a few days then took it back to them to have the oil changed. The manager was not amused...

Troy

[Ghoste]

My answer was poorly worded but I guess what I was trying to say was to go with the full replacement.  It might seem to them like the expensive route but in the long run they are likely better off.

[Mike DC]

   

"Well, you were the last guys to work on it and now the wipers don't work . . . Ma'am, all we did was change the oil and rotate the tires ? ?"

This one busted me up laughing.  So true. 

   

[Tilar]

Another one of my "I can screw it up myself for a lot less" stories: I paid a local muffler shop for a new dual exhaust on my 454 Suburban. After I got it home I noticed the oil filter seemed awfully close to the new pipe (ie. directly above it - facing down). I waited a few days then took it back to them to have the oil changed. The manager was not amused...

Troy

That would have been fun to watch. Did they fix the exhaust so you could get the filter off?

I've heard nothing but good out of Jasper. I don't know if they still do it, but they used to cover labor on a push and pull if you had to replace one of their rebuilds.

[no318]

OK.  Some mis-information here....
  The vortec 350 is NOT an LT1
  The vortec 350 is not as cheap as the older ones
  The vortec 350 had probs with leaking coolant at the intake gaskets.  This was probably the cause that lead to more serious damage.

NOW.  I have done 2 of these in my shop in the last year. 
  #1 NEW engine from GM.  Roughly $2000 exchange.  Roughly another $1000 for install with labor, oil, filter, water pump, belt, hoses, spark plugs, wires, etc, etc.

  #2 I bought one for ME and I rebuilt the engine.  Roughly $1200 at the machine shop and engine kit with NO PISTONS (standard bore).  Also needed, the above accessories and etc. 

Hope that helps a little.

[Cooter]

Don't need a lecture and it's too late to care about who is to blame Cooter.  


Wasn't my intention Troy, but the way it was worded I figured it was another "Holy sh*t! That much!?" thread again....

I know I blew a head gasket in one of my old trucks and shortly after I put it back together the rod bearings seized. No one mentioned that the water/antifreeze in the oil would cause that to happen (not even the shops that I got quotes from).



I won't pretend to emagine that there are no "Unshady" Auto repair shops out there..Hell, next to Lawyers and Doctors, Mechanic's are the worse trusted people on the planet...Some with good reason..The idots on Dateline NBC aren't helping either....
The biggest problem I see is people don't get one mechanic and stay with him/her, they move around to fifty different shops and this is why they seem to always get the "Dud" so to speak...



Troy

[b5blue]

My take is yea rebuilt motor on a 97.....12-13 year old baked engine think of weak seals and crud in there from age....it's not about "cheaper" it's about better. 

[Ghoste]

Actually Cooter I think car salesmen place in the list above mechanics and just under lawyers. 

[tan top]

   

"Well, you were the last guys to work on it and now the wipers don't work . . . Ma'am, all we did was change the oil and rotate the tires ? ?"

This one busted me up laughing.  So true. 

   

yeah i have a had customers try that one !!     one i had was  , i done a service  , customer came back   month later & said ! my headlamp bulb blew last night !  how come you did not change it when you done the service !! you must of known it was going to blow   

[Troy]

Don't need a lecture and it's too late to care about who is to blame Cooter. 


Wasn't my intention Troy, but the way it was worded I figured it was another "Holy sh*t! That much!?" thread again....

I know I blew a head gasket in one of my old trucks and shortly after I put it back together the rod bearings seized. No one mentioned that the water/antifreeze in the oil would cause that to happen (not even the shops that I got quotes from).



I won't pretend to emagine that there are no "Unshady" Auto repair shops out there..Hell, next to Lawyers and Doctors, Mechanic's are the worse trusted people on the planet...Some with good reason..The idots on Dateline NBC aren't helping either....
The biggest problem I see is people don't get one mechanic and stay with him/her, they move around to fifty different shops and this is why they seem to always get the "Dud" so to speak...



Troy

Well, I think $2,713 is too much to only check/machine the current heads and bolt it back together. My best guess is that the vehicle isn't worth more than about $4000 so if I were looking at a repair bill near $3,000 I'd use the money to buy another car. Goodness knows there is a lot of other stuff that's worn out and ready to fail. They need to do something quick so I need(ed) answers - not commentary. I'd send them to the mechanic I've been using for years but he retired and I'm having no luck finding another.

Another one of my "I can screw it up myself for a lot less" stories: I paid a local muffler shop for a new dual exhaust on my 454 Suburban. After I got it home I noticed the oil filter seemed awfully close to the new pipe (ie. directly above it - facing down). I waited a few days then took it back to them to have the oil changed. The manager was not amused...

Troy

That would have been fun to watch. Did they fix the exhaust so you could get the filter off?

I've heard nothing but good out of Jasper. I don't know if they still do it, but they used to cover labor on a push and pull if you had to replace one of their rebuilds.

Yes, they replaced it and changed my oil for free. I was already ticked because it took 5 days for them to install it the first time but that's a different story. They are out of business now. Go figure.

My take is yea rebuilt motor on a 97.....12-13 year old baked engine think of weak seals and crud in there from age....it's not about "cheaper" it's about better. 

That's what I was thinking. Of course, affordability is also important.

Troy

[b5blue]

Of course!

[moparstuart]

As said before a vortec motor is a totally different animal ( 96-00)  only . There are alot less of them and they are not a great motor . They go out all the time and we can sell them used with 200k on them for a grand all day long.  We get at least one call a day for them  . I wish i had 50 of them instock .
High or low miles they are in shortage .
     On the other hand the  5.3L  99-up motor they replace the 5.7 with is a great motor and doesnt sell worth a darm because they almost never go bad .   

 

[bakerhillpins]

     On the other hand the  5.3L  99-up motor they replace the 5.7 with is a great motor and doesnt sell worth a darm because they almost never go bad .   

So it would seem that one might want to upgrade to the 5.3L  99-up motor then as they should not only be cheaper but in greater supply? 

Or would the conversion costs kill you?

[bull]

I hope this doesn't fall into the "lecture" or "commentary" category but I'd have to really, really be in love with that particular 1997 Chevy Suburban to want to spend $3k repairing it, especially if the rest of it is worn out too. My mom faced a similar situation not too long ago with a Lincoln Town Car. It had something like $140k on it and the engine let go so she was on the fence regarding a new engine or not. In her case though everything else was in very good condition but even then she decided to dump it and get something else.

If I were your sister/brother-in-law I'd either get the cheapest replacement engine possible (and then probably sell it) or junk it and get another decent Suburban for $4k-$5k.

Another one of my "I can screw it up myself for a lot less" stories: I paid a local muffler shop for a new dual exhaust on my 454 Suburban. After I got it home I noticed the oil filter seemed awfully close to the new pipe (ie. directly above it - facing down). I waited a few days then took it back to them to have the oil changed. The manager was not amused...

Troy

Yea! That's the way to work it.

[no318]

It depends.  I LIKE those trucks and think they are good, comortable, reliable , easy to work on transportation.  There are certainly alot of them out there, though...and cheap as was previously stated.

[68charger383]

Here's a great deal for $500

Complete motor:

air cleaner to exhaust manifolds
400 with a 400 turbo tranny in Chicago.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/pts/1511218604.html