Steering Question.

[G-man]

Hi

Why would someone option for Manual steering (16:1 - 3.5 turns lock to lock) vs power steering (12:1 - 2 3/4 turns lock to lock)?

Whats the benefit of the manual box in a performance sense... and whats the benefit of power steer in performance...

I know vipers handle good etc... they are power steer... are the ones that race also power steer... if not, why?

[b5blue]

I think it's just not feeding power to the pump?

[Charger-Bodie]

The road feel of power steering just isnt there compared to manual.

[Ghoste]

Not to mention that power steering is heavier and the pump sucks up a little horsepower.  It wasn't uncommon to order musclecars without power steering.  It's also worth remembering that power steering was an option you had to pay for.  A lot of things we take for granted in cars now were optional extras that weren't as easy to sell in the 60's.

[G-man]

Would you go manual steer if the car is power-steer?

Ive seen people convert from power-manual and im thinking "why when in general u convert from manual-power" - with a rack and pinion its not heavy.

I also dont get why Race cars run manual steer....

Is there a problem with power steer - high speeds?

What about for a street car with occasional drag race.... why power or manual?

In my mind Power means less turns lock-lock that means more responsive when u turn steering wheel no? As you turn wheel car turns to... while manual u can play with the wheel "left right left right left right" cars still going straight or its turning left when u went right how delayed it is....

yet race cars have manual...

Have i missed something?

Or is power steer for auto-crossing while manual steer is for circuit racing whree ur not doing 100 turns every few seconds and not as sharp either... few hair pins etc not neccessary for power.. 

[Charger-Bodie]

Power steering takes less effort to turn,but the manual steering just has a better feel. IMO 

[BBKNARF]

Agree to all the above  its scary at 90 mph I can't feel the road.

[Charger RT]

My 68 GTO had manual steering and yes it does feel better at high speeds but can be a bear to park. But if your caster is set right manual isn't too bad. But if your caster is set for power steering yes it is hard to park.
Tim

[Charger-Bodie]

My 68 GTO had manual steering and yes it does feel better at high speeds but can be a bear to park. But if your caster is set right manual isn't too bad. But if your caster is set for power steering yes it is hard to park.
Tim

Thats a fact!......The allignment settings are key for manual to be somewhat easy to turn. Also Ive noticed that GM  muscle car era car turn quite abit harder than any of the manual steer mopars Ive had.

[Cooter]

Most times people convert to manual steering for the above mentioned, but you ask'd what's the benefit? Well, for one, the box is smaller allowing for more header room, lighter weight, and doesn't rob HP from the engine with manual steering....

[G-man]

Well I remember having 1 car that was manual steer and its like a bus

U turn wheel and car doesnt turn... its all like... delayed.

While power every movement u make the car turns accordinly....

Is that the problem of the manual steer I had or thats the general thing u get with all (even the best) manual steer setups.

Parking was horrible having to turn the wheel 500 times... it wasnt 'hard' in the sense of 'not able to turn' it was actually easy to turn but u had to turn it 10 times like a bus for it to turn... ( i think more turns gave it the leverage to be easy to turn) Thats also probbbably why it wasnt that responsive to turning (left right left right) cars still going straight.

[Cooter]

My General Lee has power steering and while I'll admit, it IS easy to steer in low at low speed, at upper speeds, it has no road feel what so ever...
My Dart on the other hand has manual steering and it is just as responsive as the power steering as far as move wheel, steers car. I think the one you described either had a worn out box or steering linkage, as nobody hardly ever checks the manual boxes for proper oil level and they wear out...

I do know the wider tire you are running ON THE FRONT plays a huge roll in how the manual steering steers...The Dart has VERY narrow tires (3 1/2" wheels) on the front so I guess that helps.

[HPP]

I assume we're talking about the ORIGINAL style mopar power stereing, which pretty much sucks by today's standards.

There are new steering systems which do not rob as much power as those of years past. Simiarlly, there are ways of seeting up the old recirculating ball system to provide significantly improved road feel and feedback, ie Firm Feel or Steer and Gear boxes. Combine that with altered pump pressures and progressive box valving, huge amounts of postive caster and wide tires, and a power unit can feel almost like a manual box until it is time to parallel park.

Reasons for going manul over power; lighter weight, more room, less power draw, or skinny front tires used in an environment where steering effort is not a concern.

BTW, a significant number of modern race cars do use power steering these days. They are lightweight divorced style pumps no bigger than your fist with huge pulleys on them and remote reservours with huge coolers.

[G-man]

so what

Bottom line is Manual steer is the best unless you want ease of parking then PS is the way to go.

Auto Cross use... ?

Circuit race use?

Drag Race use?

NASCAR use?

Street performer (straight line, cruising) use?

[suntech]

I would have used powersteering for all of the senarios above!!! would go with power assisted pinion rack though

[b5blue]

Well I guess...Kinda like auto or manual trannys, after years of driving TR-4's, TR-7's and Spitfires I dig driving my 440 automatic power steering and brake soon to have A/C Charger around. Some guys love cranking the wheel and rowing through the gears it's all good.

[HPP]

Best depends on a number of factors; application, budget, car model, engine choice, your personal body strength, etc.

IMO, you can build a power set up to provide the feedback of a manual, but you can never get it to be packaged as compactly or be as lightweight. Like suntech, I'd say a power box is the best all around choice for all your scenarios, except maybe drag racing.

[b5blue]

I've gotta say I like doing the one finger wheel whip around but mine's a daily driver.

[Nacho-RT74]

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[BrianShaughnessy]

I prefer power...  easier to drive all around.   If I was serious about drag racing I'd have a car with manual... that's about the only way.

If somebody comes up with a better / affordable rack system other than that unisteer POS then I might look into that. 

The power box is a hefty POS also and the whole system is prone to leaks and whatnot but I don't have to have the steering wheel from the Queen Mary to get around the parking lot either.

And furthermore, for the bucks I gave for the FF Stage 2 I'm not all that impressed either.   That leaks some also.   

I will probably look into the fast ratio pitman / idler arm setups for the next car rather than worry what stage box I'll use.

[G-man]

Well Il go the manual just cause its lighter. From what I know down here, v8 Super cars at bathurst all run manual steer in those races.

Il just go for the performance n if i get jack of it trying to park etc (though this car ist to be driven daily to be needed to be parked like that) then I can always put PS back in.

[HPP]

Here is the nascar style pump I used for several years in my Plymouth. I've transplanted it into my Dodge. Firm Feel box, fast ratio arms, lots of caster, and wide tires make it feel pretty solid and highly responsive.

[b5blue]

Interesting and cool HHP. 

[HPP]

And lightweight. I'm thinking about plumbing a cooler in to the return line. Flex line to a steel line under the fender that runs up to the radiator support where the cooler is mounted.

[b5blue]

From the box to the tank or tank to pump? (eather way I get it!)