Charger 500 only comes with a Hemi.

[1969chargerrtse]

I was bored last night and flipping through old brouchers I've had since 69 and I read how Dodge says the 500 only comes with a Hemi?

[69_500]

that was the original plan but they also realized that they would never sell 500 street HEMI cars so they began to offer the 440 in the car shortly after production started. I have a letter somewhere around here I think its out in the 500 still actually after the trip to Talladega that says they are going to offer the 440 in the car as well. Of the cars I have seen over the years the first 32 of them are all HEMI's before there is a 440 car even being built.

[Ghoste]

There was a 69 Charger ad run by Chrysler Canada that makes a similar statement but like Danny said, just pre-production press.

[Dans 68]

That tidbit is also somewhat mentioned in the Little Red Book in the '68 Charger section. I have attached the page paragraph that describes how after June '68 if you wanted a Hemi and a 4-speed then the car would come with a flush grill, exposed headlights and chrome windshield reveal moulding. Didn't happen for the '68's but interesting that it was thought about.

Dan

[Ghoste]

See, now that pisses me off.  Stuff that Chrysler prints in advance of production that has their stated intentions I fully understand but a book that is written years after the fact and is blatantly wrong is inexcusable and it isn't like it's the only example of that sort of thing either.

[Dans 68]

See, now that pisses me off.  Stuff that Chrysler prints in advance of production that has their stated intentions I fully understand but a book that is written years after the fact and is blatantly wrong is inexcusable and it isn't like it's the only example of that sort of thing either.

Agreed. Makes you want to your head. 

Dan

[Brock Samson]

note that pic also shows the recall wheels...  sometimes i guess things didn't work out as intended,.. the Daytona was gonna have a huge NASA scoop too... 

[Ghoste]

the Daytona was gonna have a huge NASA scoop too...  

I hadn't heard that before; any details?

[nascarxx29]

If you ever seen the daytona anoucement brochure.As this is what you had to go by and order the car .without seeing it .There was changes made the hood with nasa ducts was one of them

[maxwellwedge]

What? Nasa is sending ducks into orbit now?

[nascarxx29]

They didnt outright call them nasa ducts .They said aircraft type fresh air intakes on the hood

[nascarxx29]

[superbirdtom]

theyre really called naca ducts but since nasa took over years ago   theyre reffered to as nasa ducts in some circles. National Advisory Comitte for Aeronautics N.A.C.A. Just a low drag air inlet that does not cause drag on a flat surface.

[learical1]

1.  As I heard the story, Dodge thought that, since the Charger 500 would be raced in NASCAR with a hemi, all 500 of them would have to be built with hemis.  NASCAR said Dodge need 500 hemis in any 1969 Dodge and 500 Charger 500's with any engine, so the hemi requirement was dropped.

2.  NACA ducts look the the scoop on an AAR Cuda, the 69 Shelby Mustangs had smaller versions of the scoop. 

[Ghoste]

Personally I think the copywriter in that brochure when he wrote about "aircraft inspired hood and fender cooling vents" was talking about the scallops in the standard hood (and obviously the fender scoops of course).  I'm sure the writer of the brochure was just some lower level hack in the ad company who was given a photo and told to write something cool about the car in one paragraph.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn he had no other experience with Dodge or the Charger or cars and technical data in general.

[learical1]

http://aerowarriors.com/cda/cda_08_031769.html

http://aerowarriors.com/cda/cda_100969.html

No, they meant hood scoop.

[Ghoste]

Hmmm, I'm inclined to believe we're both correct.  By the links it was obviously considered and tested in the wind tunnel for comparison with the cowl inlet favored in NASCAR.  I would still contend that the writer for that brochure would still have been nothing but a guy in the ad firm who never saw those two documents and was likely looking at the hood scallops.  I guess I base it mainly on the wording and the fact that it would be extremely unlikely for anyone within Chrysler (and especially engineering) to generate copy for a brochure.
Pure conjecture on my part of course, but it is what I believe.

[Ghoste]

Then again, looking closely at the drawing in the brochure, there could be a NACA duct shaded in there where they were experimenting with it.
What was the release date for the brochure?

[nascarxx29]

The brochure has recieved April 17 69 on it I believe

[Brock Samson]

 I seen a picture on the winged warriors site of the cobbled up NASA duct on the early engineering mock up, I belive it was the No. 22 car but you wing nuts,..    would know better then me,.. maybe it was the Red No. 71 engineering mule.   even though it's my fav. all time car I don't have every parts no. and Vin # memorised...



ok there's the pic...

it's a Chrysler Engineering Wind tunnel test photo looks to about the size of the AAR scoop, and on a '69 style (wide spaced scallops) hood...

for comparo purposes here's the Dan Gurney AARs' hood not quite the same being raised in plain view and not really a proper NACA duct..


an actual modern piece...

it was of course eventually used..


there is also mention of wider wheel openings to allow for wider tires,..
I'm sure the brochures' pic was done before an actual approved Daytona was built, notice the tiny little fender scoops or waste gates or whatever they're called..
The really low wing in back...
and yes, there is some kinda' small scoop in the center.
And to point out that thay is not some low level "P.R. Hack" those are memos from Dodge engineering proper...
I'm sure they had little time to tweak everything, the first press daytona was a quickly Modded street charger with a tunneled rear window and headlight lines made from tape... Why they didn't mod a 500 will probably never be known...

unable to find that charger but I did find this....



Please note the bottom pic!
I have long wondered what the turbine engined charger looked like!  
finding this really turns my crank!  

"Tom Golec, supervisor of car development recalls that low-volume tooling was ordered and approximately 500 Turbine Chargers were planned for the initial run. Mr. Golec points out that - a special no-slip clutch unit was developed for the '66 Turbine Charger, but was never used due to very high cost. Supposedly two '66 Turbine Chargers with the special clutch were built, but they were never shown to the - public. The Charger became a sporty Dodge with a conventional engine and slightly different trim (the Turbine job had a grille opening much like the 1970 Challenger)...the project was stillborn.

What killed the project? The mid- - sixties produced a variety of rumblings out of Washington. Insurance - companies clamped down on supercars, safety laws were written and smog laws took effect. Once the Clean Air Act - became reality. it specified control of NOX emissions and. according to - George Huebner, it was not known at that time if the turbine would meet future NOX requirements. The first direct result was to shelve the '66 Turbine Charger. The government was now in the car-making business and Chrysler was out of the turbine car business-at least on any mass scale. Regulations on conventional engines took on very high priorities, and though a sixth-generation engine was developed to meet NOX standards. Little was done with it-engineers were largely occupied with the emissions problems of piston engines."

from... http://www.turbinecar.com/sia/sia57.htm
these turbine engined '66s are my personal holy grail...
sorry for the hijack..
Now,.. what if the '69 Daytona was turbine powered?..   and had a NACA Duct?.,.

[Ghoste]

The brochure has recieved April 17 69 on it I believe

About a month after the product planning memo but several months ahead of the hood scoop wind tunnel test memo.

[learical1]

Ghoste, I wasn't meaning to argue with you, I just meant that when the PR guy wrote the blurb to go with the illustration, he was probably told to include the hood scoop in case the final product wound up having one.  I'm sure Dodge didn't want Ford whining to NASCAR that "the brochure don't say nothin' about having a hood scoop."

[Ghoste]

Oh no, I wasn't seeing it as an argument and I wasn't trying to be difficult either.  I just tend to question things.  There seems to be so much folklore that turns into fact surrounding old cars generally and especially Mopars that I'm always lloking for proof.  It's just a learning process is all.