question on HID lighting mod on 68 charger

[charger2fast4u]

i'm wondering what kind of wiring/electrical mods would have to be done on the elecrical system to make these lights work on a 68 charger? would i be able to wire them into the stock harness i have all brand new wiring harnesses from Yearone. let me know what you's think.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-08-DODGE-CHARGER-HALO-BLACK-PROJ-HEADLIGHTS-HID-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33710QQihZ021QQitemZ310136857241QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[426HemiCharger]

I dunno  Cosmetic reworking may need to happen aswell.

[2Gunz]

If your asking if thats going to plug right in ..... the answer is No.

But it also wont be hard to wire it up.

If it where me I would be a lot more worried about how your going to mod it to fit and look
like something.

[charger2fast4u]

i pretty much knew it wouldn't be a plug and play but does anyone know what wiring would need done to make them work? i'm not worried about the cosmetic fit of them right now get to that later but they look like it will be close to fitting. anyone have a new charger maybe you could take some measurements of the lights on it. i'm figuring with the idea i got in my head if these things would fit in the 68 grille it would come out looking pretty nice but i also know i'd take alot of hits from people saying leave it stock.

[Rolling_Thunder]

tou will be able to use the stock wiring as you will need it to trigger the relays that control the ignitors

[charger2fast4u]

would i have to add any extra wires to wire them up besides for the neon rings? or would i be able to just use the wiring harness  and splice wires thanks for the replys

[Rolling_Thunder]

well - if you are planning on running the neon rings - you might want to connect them to the existing running lights so they turn off when the headlights turn on.

[Charger74]

charger2fast4u,

No, you cannot just add them to the existing harness.  Reason why is they draw too much power and will probably melt your harness.

What you need to do is this, you will run relay to each lite, you then run a power wire directly from the alternator to power the actual light.  This is basic setup that I know of.  Contact Autodynamics on here, he can give you better information and even has a setup for sale.

[Rolling_Thunder]

usually any HID "kit" you purchase will come with a relay set up... 

[charger2fast4u]

would it burn up my harness even if it is a brand new one never used yet? i could see it burning up if it was old wiring but i could be wrong. if i were to do as charger74 said with wiring it up wouldn't the lights be on all the time then when running? i only want them on when i turn the headlight switch on. another idea what if i took my wiring harness and replaced the wiring for the lights with heavier gauge wire?

[Charger74]

  No they will not be on all the time.  Basically I was doing some more reading yesterday.  Most setups come with a ballist resistor just like your flourscent lights in stores need so maybe it won't melt your wires.  But ever notice that even our stock headlights flicker  and are dimmer when your car is idling at a stoplight???  This is due to poor power coming from the system.   Adding a relay setup like I discussed eliminates this issue.

Also check out this thread to see more about what I'm talking about and why to add the relay:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,168.0/all.html


   

Check out this site, it gives a pretty good example and explains how a relay works;
http://www.pc-control.co.uk/relays.htm

[charger2fast4u]

that is some very valuable information now some  questions. what gauge wire should be ran from the alternator to the relays i would guess 10g wire would be a great choice? also i would need to run 2 10g wires from the alt right 1 for each relay? what if i upgraded to a higher output alt would that fix the dimming lights on a stock setup or would you still need to upgrade to this wiring setup to eliminate it? and does anyone know what amp relays would be best suited for the these new 05 and up headlights? would 30 amp relays and inline fuses be a good choice? thanks for the great info keep it coming

[2Gunz]

Im going to dispell a few things here and also add some math.

HID headlights typically produce 2 - 3 times the light output of a Halogen lamp at the same wattage.

Most HID headlights are 35 watts (although I think i have seen 50 and 75 watt flavors for cars)

Most Halogen headlights are 55 watts

So HID headlights actually use less wattage (Amps) to power than "normal" headlights.

Amperage is wattage divided by voltage

so......

55 watt halogens would use 4.58 amps at 12 volts to run   -  Both Bulbs would be 9.1 Amps
35 Watt HID's would use 2.92 Amps at 12 volts to run - Both bulbs would be 5.83 Amps

Given that they would actually be easier on the electrical wiring than the "old" bulbs.
Except for two large flaws.

The first and biggest is that HID's when "Striking" (trying to get the lamp to start) Pull for a brief period of time pull 10-15 amps PER bulb.
The upside to this is it only lasts a few seconds. Than goes way down.

The second which is more my assumption than fact so take it for what you will.
Is that dirty connections (40 year old switches, and spades) could cause premature ballast failure as it would require the power circuit to work harder.
The dirty connections wouldnt be an issue or even noticed on an "old" bulb.

So back to your question.......

Do you NEED to add relays.

I would say no. You would prolly need to put in a larger fuse to deal with the HID "strike".
And the wiring and switch should live through it as it doesnt last very long.

But for piece of mind and performance I would put in relays.

I think I spent 20 bucks on mine.
And honestly its one of the best things I have ever done..... at any price.


I would use 30 amp relays and 10 gauge wire (good for 30 amps at 9').

You could prolly get away with a 20 amp Relay and 12 Gauge wire. But for a few extra bucks why not go big?

[2Gunz]

that is some very valuable information now some  questions. what gauge wire should be ran from the alternator to the relays i would guess 10g wire would be a great choice? also i would need to run 2 10g wires from the alt right 1 for each relay? what if i upgraded to a higher output alt would that fix the dimming lights on a stock setup or would you still need to upgrade to this wiring setup to eliminate it? and does anyone know what amp relays would be best suited for the these new 05 and up headlights? would 30 amp relays and inline fuses be a good choice? thanks for the great info keep it coming

Figured I Would directly answer your question.

Nothing should be run from the alternator it should be connected to the battery.  And 10 Gauge is a good choice.

One wire from the battery and both headlights on the SAME relay. You could use two relays one for each healight.... but I dont see the point.

Loaded question.....  Upgrading the wiring will give you brighter headlights.  Upgrading your alternator will help stop the dimming at idle. Both should be done

I would use 30 amp relays and PLEASE use fuses. In line are fine.

[Hemidog]

I guess people use two relays, one for low and one for high beam.

[2Gunz]

Ya in a high / lowbeam setup.

But if your going to do an HID setup the HID lights would require just one.

[danmc77]

I'm doing this very thing...

I've upgraded to a higher output, internally regulated alternator, eliminated the stock ALT gauge, and re-routed the charging system away from the dash harness and will use the starter relay as my main BUS.  The headlights will get relays as well.

In order to run the HIDs, I had to swap out the stock bulbs to a set of H4 housings.  they literally just bolt in place of the originals w/ no mods.  Then I ordered HID bulbs specifically for my H4 housings.  The bulbs plug into the ballasts, and the ballasts are just hooked up with a red and black wire - couldn't be easier.  The only challange is to decide exactly how to run the hi-beam system.  I've decided to run a second set of HIDs as highs, and just have all 4 HID head lights on as high-beams.

Here are some pics of one side mocked up.  I have since restored my grille, and will have it all bolted together and running in the next few weeks.

[c00nhunterjoe]

wow, that looks awesome! what type of h-4 housing are you running? and where did you get the hid conversion bulb kit from?

[danmc77]

wow, that looks awesome! what type of h-4 housing are you running? and where did you get the hid conversion bulb kit from?

All Ebay stuff.  I've used the HID kits in a few cars already, and have had no issues - they were something like $100 shipped to my door.  I think this set is 5,000k color temp.  The H4 housings are also from Ebay, but these are glass, and have the buld shield inside - no neon or LED rings or other gay crap.  There are a ton of cheesy housing on Ebag - just got to look for the best ones.  I actually could have spend more and got a real high-quality non-crystal-style housing, but I spent too much $ on all the other upgrades on my car - I had to draw the line somewhere.

Soryy I don;t have any links for you, but I bought these about a year ago and just finally started working on the car just recently. 

Either way, it really is an easy ALMOST plug and play swap, IMO.  In fact, my HIDs came with a harness adapter where I could have just plugged it directly into the staock light harness, but I'm running relays, so I didn't use them.

[danmc77]

BTW - real quick Ebag search here is an example of an HID kit (chaeper than they were just a year ago), and the bulb housings:

http://cgi.ebay.com/hid-kit-xenon-conversion-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-9005-9007-9006_W0QQitemZ120448604726QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0b4bda36&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/H6024-ROUND-CLEAR-HEADLIGHTS-H4-CONVERSION-67-81-CAMARO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a10Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5d25551ef6QQitemZ400058294006QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Those are the 7" housings for the 2 headlight cars (Dart, Duster, etc.), but you just have to search some more to find the right size - they are standard, so they're not hard to find.

[c00nhunterjoe]

what size are ours? worse case i will go measure my headlight bulbs....lol

[danmc77]

what size are ours? worse case i will go measure my headlight bulbs....lol

Pretty sure they are 5.75" for the 4-headlight cars, and 7" for the 2-headlight cars.

[danmc77]

Here's a set:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-3-4-5-75-H5001-H5006-ROUND-CLEAR-HEADLIGHTS-H4-PAIR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem53dbd0c1e9QQitemZ360170177001QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[c00nhunterjoe]

hmm, i checked walmart today and there h-4 sets are 4 inch or 6 inch, so if i find 5.75 lenses you are saying they are direct fit with no mods to our stock bulbs? that is great!