Do you think Challenger is the new Charger....?

[ramairthree]

sorry,
I found this site looking for info about an old family Charger.

I really hoped the new GTO (2004 to 2006) or new Charger would capture the essence of the old ones.
The original mid sized GTO muscle car was replaced with a fast 2+2 pony car that looked nothing like the old one.
The original mid sized Charger muscle car was replaced with a fast (the RTs and SRTs) four door sedan that looked nothing like the old one.

I can't complain about the speed and performance of either, but they just were not for me.  I basically wanted the GTO to look a little like an old one, and the same for the Charger- and especially not be a sedan.  Again, for the record, I am only stating my opinion that they do not resemble the vintage- not beating them up over speed, etc.

Well, then came the new Challenger.  It sure has lines that resemble the classic.  But the original was a 2+2 pony car.  Compared to the new 2+2  Mustang or new 2+2 Camaro pony cars, the Challenger is a good bit larger and seats 5.  (and three in the back fit better than 2 in the back of the Camaro or Mustang)  Sized and seating wise,
I would have to say the new Challenger fills the niche of the old intermediate sized muscle car Charger.

I really like it, and a stock down to the factory street tires auto RT that runs 13.21 is pretty cool.  It beats a new Mustang GT stock by a hair, but is a touch behind a new stock SS Camaro.  Yes, there are faster performance sedans, etc. but it really catches the essence of an intermediate sized vintage muscle car with the looks of the vintage Challenger pony sized muscle car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CeDd75UJPs

I have fond memories of the classic Chargers.  Does anyone else with similar memories think that size and seating wise, the new Challenger fills the niche of the old Charger?

[bull]

Man, that video just about made me hurl. Shakey camera, out of focus... Anyway, no offense if you're the one who shot it.

Yea, I've been under the impression that the Challenger was in some ways an apology for the "Charger" and you get that underlying message in interviews with the people early on in the development of it. One instance of that is from Micheal Castiglione who helped design the Challenger concept before it went into production. IIRC he actually referenced the disappointment to the overall opinion of the new "Charger" and said that was one of the reasons they did what they did with the Challenger. I doubt anyone from Chrysler would now admit that the Challenger was made, in part, due to backlash over reaction to the "Charger" from muscle car loyalists but at one time there was that element to their explanation. Castiglione did not work for Chrysler directly (he is/was chief designer at Pacifica Studio) but he was obviously privy to the mood surrounding its creation as one of the concept designers.

EDIT** I found one of Castiglione's interviews about it and what he said is that his most retro Challenger design was initially pushed aside by Chrysler but that "through some changes that happened and some input that we got from Charger they decided to go back to this type of design." He candy-coated it but I think we all know what kind input he's talking about.

It starts at about 2:22 on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkA1uAJlbzU&feature=PlayList&p=DF4C4E8D6A3EE64B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=44

[ramairthree]

Thanks for the link to the interview.

Sorry about the "movie" quality.  My 10 year old shot it while I was driving, and used a regular digital camera.  You can pause at the end to verify the ET and MPH.  The Mustang guy was super eager to line up against one of the "too heavy, slow new Challengers," got too excited and had a bad launch.  The GTs are nice mid 13s cars, not a lot of HP, but Mustang has always made up for that with light weight and numerically high rear ends.  I guess he read too many magazines saying Challenger RTs were 14 second or high 13s cars.  I may do a few bolt ons to take it into the high 12s.

[Ghoste]

As far as size, you are correct it is likely closer to the old Charger than the ponycaras.  They did a great job of hiding it's size because it looks so much like the old one but the old ones were pretty small in there (compared to a Charger).

[Chatt69chgr]

In 1969 I was as poor as a church mouse so didn't get to participate in the muscle car happening.  Right now, I am restoring a 69 charger.  But since it will be so long to get it on the road, I bought a new Challenger.  I've got to tell you that it is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.  I have a R/T so I just have the 376 hp engine but with the 6 speed trans, it really moves.  It's hard to believe that it weighs more than the charger does.  and it looks smaller than the charger.  Maybe that's an illusions.  I don't know.  But I do think that Chrysler got the design as good as they probably could have given all the constraints I am sure they had to work with.  I am really satisfied with the car.  it has the look and the sound I wanted and it drives just like I want it to.  I won't put down the new charger.  it isn't what I would want but it kind of grows on you too and if you need a 4 door car, it has plenty of muscle to move it on down the road.  I'd rather have one of those than a crappy 4 cyl grocery getter that we are all going to be saddled with before too long.  That's why i am buying all the muscle type cars I can while I can before they are gone.

[Silver R/T]

Not sure about it being a Challenger but I've heard from one of the guys that I've talked to say that new "charger" kind of looks like old Challenger...I just stood there...confused.

[Ghoste]

I can somewhat see where he is coming from Silver.  When I look at the car in profile, the body line at the rear reminds me of the Cuda.

[Brock Samson]

I've heard from one of the guys that I've talked to say that new "charger" kind of looks like old Challenger...I just stood there...confused.

I can somewhat see where he is coming from Silver.  When I look at the car in profile, the body line at the rear reminds me of the Cuda.

                                                                                     

[Ghoste]

Take a closer look Brock.  Why do you think they use a hockey stick stripe back there?  That is one of the reasons I dislike the styling of the car so much, it's a collision of themes and I'm sure that little crease was the part the Dodge spin doctors were referring to when they raved about the retro styling.  It doesn't flow with the rest of the car and it sure as Hell doesn't fit well with the Avenger style roofline and rear 1/4 windows.

[Brock Samson]

oh I'm not talkin to you anymore..

[Ghoste]

Hey buddy, I didn't say it was a good thing.  I just said it's what I see and that it doesn't look right to my eye to use it there. 

[Brock Samson]

 Im just messin with ya' I know you'r probably comparing the fender kick up line at the rear of the back two doors but 'Cudas never had the two extra doors and all the cars we love were hard tops. The new Chally and Camaro have fixed rear glass, that's one thing the Mustang new and old have in common,.. and one reason it matches up alot better then the other two,.. the neo-charger isn't even in the running from a design stand point, though you have to give the new cars props for performance, imagine if the weight was 300-400 Lbs. less..

[Magnumcharger]

oh I'm not talkin to you anymore..

[bull]

,.. the neo-charger isn't even in the running from a design stand point, though you have to give the new cars props for performance, imagine if the weight was 300-400 Lbs. less..

You're right. It deserves as much respect as the the Crown Vic and the Chevy Ca-piece. I finally figured it all out today on my way to work. The new "Charger" is most-loved by old guys and rappers. They have similar tastes in other things too such as women with big butts, sweat suits, gawdy jewelry, big thick glasses and fake teeth....

[Brock Samson]

you say that like it's a bad thing.. 

[quapman]

The wife bought a new Charger and it has grown on me, especially with the AAR stripes I added. Overall, a really nice car, but they should have called it a "Magnum" sedan.

The new Challenger on the other hand. Can y'all say "bloated goat"? If the proportions were right and it were SMALLER than the original (new Chally is 113% the size of the old one), it would be spot-on, but as usual, it's not on.