Wilwood Brakes on a 69 Charger

[mike337]

My 69 Charger had original power disc brakes on the front.  I have already bought a new power disc brake master cylinder (from Master Power Brake) for the car,  but decided I would like to install a full Wilwood disc system on all 4 corners of the car.  I now have a set of drum spindles on the front of the car, and am wondering if I can use the original type power master cylinder with booster with it.  Anyone see any potential problems with that type of setup?

Also, I have been told that the rear axles will have to be shortened by 1/8 inch to account for the difference in the Wilwood backing plate and the original drum backing plate. 

Anyone have experience with that?


Mike

[Patronus]

I can give you my suggestion to try another manufacturer. I'm not a happy camper with my Willwood set-up. I'm switching to the Baer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baer-4141050B-SS4-Front-Brake-System-279-5mm-11-with-Black-Calipers-/231673923090?fits=Year%3A1969|Model%3ACharger&hash=item35f0d78612:g:Y9gAAOSwd0BV5rbL&vxp=mtr

Now I'm sure I will need to swap spindles/etc. (I have the drum spindles with the Willwood's now) So it will be even more $, but SO much worth it!
As far as the rears, I haven't heard about the 1/8" thing. Seems weird that they would make a kit that requires mods to work?

[mike337]

What problems have you had with the Wilwood setup?

Will you have to change to the disc spindles for the Baer brakes?

Have you already identified the spindles needed?

Mike

[Mopar Nut]

Also, I have been told that the rear axles will have to be shortened by 1/8 inch to account for the difference in the Wilwood backing plate and the original drum backing plate. 

Anyone have experience with that?


Mike

Never heard that, but you will need to switch to the green bearings. My Baer brakes bolted right in along with other kits that will too.

[myk]

Yeah, Baer seems to be the kit of choice.  Are the Wilwood's just as expensive as the Baer's?

[bill440rt]

I have Wilwood's on my '69, 6-piston up front, 4-piston in the rear. Coupled with a hydroboost. LOVE them. 

Awesome stopping power.
I had a manual 4-wheel SSBC kit on there before, didn't even see 100 miles on them before I took them off. Complete joke.

I have the original drum spindles on there as well, that was a plus for me not having to search for disc spindles.
For the rears, yes you will have to run green bearings, the snap-ring type. Which, from my research are a much stronger design over the flange-type green bearings.
For axles, you just need to be sure you get the brake kit that matches the offset of your current axles. I ended up ordering a pair of Moser axles anyway, due to my SSBC nightmare the originals were damaged. Talk to Wilwood, they can help you with this. Also check out the instructions on their website, it gives measurements for the offset.

I also thought the Wilwoods were very easy to install, the instructions were clear, and the rear parking brake setup that others seem to complain about I didn't think was much of a big deal. Seemed to go together easy, and they work fine.

[Mopar Nut]

Op (Mike) what size/type/brand wheels are you planning on using? Wilwoods front disc's don't like Magnums or anything with a short/small center.

This is the only thing I found when ordering rear Wilwoods, you do order them by axle offset (see picture below).
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitAxleFlange.aspx

yes you will have to run green bearings, the snap-ring type. Which, from my research are a much stronger design over the flange-type green bearings.

How many miles do you have on the green bearings?

[mike337]

I already have the aftermarket 16-inch wheels I believe will accommodate the Wilwood 12 inch rotors/calipers.  Pic attached.  I know about the offset measurement requirement for the rear setup.

It was a during a discussion with Dr. Diff that they indicated the original axles would have to be shortened by 1/8 inch.  They did also assure me that the current green bearing they use (probably the snap-ring type Bill spoke of) are much different/better than the original green bearings that would not hold up to side loading.

Trying to see if anyone else using the Wilwood rear set up has the experience of shortening the axles, before I commit to that route.

Currently, I have pulled the engine to have have it thrown on a dyno (really want to know the HP of the stroker mod) , and allow me greater access to the engine compartment to finish off the under hood components of the brake system.

That is what prompted my question on the master cylinder.  Before deciding to look at the Wilwood route, I had purchased and installed a new original type master cylinder and booster on the car (still unused).  Before I start trying to fab up brake lines from the master to a new proportioning valve, (Is one still needed if it is disc/disc instead of disc/drum?) I wanted to find out if the original master cylinder and booster could be utilized, or are they incompatible with the 4 disc setup.

Just looking to tap into the experiences/opinions of other others on the board before I throw money at a setup that may not work, or require 10 more modifications to make it work.

As always, thanx to all for weighing in on the questions that I post.

Regards & Merry Christmas,

Mike

[John_Kunkel]

According to Doctor Diff the Wilwood rear disc kits are simply made wrong.

From Doc Diff:

"Yes, place the 5 hole spacer between the wheel bearing snap ring and what Wilwood calls "axle flange tube"

Inner brake register should be 2.830". Wheel register steps down from that.

In addition to the Chevy register hole diameter, Wilwood brakes are not designed correctly.

The Wilwood backing plate becomes captive between the wheel bearing and the axle flange. Because the backing plate now doubles as as a bearing retainer, unless you are running a spool, you must use an 1/8" shim between it and the housing end to avoid excessive preloading of the wheel bearings against the differential thrust block.

Of course, Wilwood does not acknowledge the problem, nor offer a solution to correct it.

I usually recommend installing the wheel bearing retainer that comes with the Green bearing kit as a shim between the housing end and backing plate. You can ditch Wilwood's (outer) bearing retainer, because it does nothing anyway."

In addition to the above, the drum parking brake sucks...find a kit that uses calipers with a built-in parking brake. Doc Diff offers them and can supply the correct parking brake cables for you installation.

http://www.doctordiff.com/rear-disc-brake-kit-11.7-rotor.html

[myk]

You have to shorten the axles?

[Patronus]

Baers .
Why go with anything else? Cerealously. 
It's basically a C5 corvette brake if I'm not mistaken..

[Mike DC]

I already have the aftermarket 16-inch wheels I believe will accommodate the Wilwood 12 inch rotors/calipers.  Pic attached.  I know about the offset measurement requirement for the rear setup.

Curious - what are the wheel & tire sizes in that pic?  Are those the 16-inchers? 

[bill440rt]

You could have the axles shortened, if it's necessary, or just eliminate the thrust block spacer entirely.
Part of the reason why some green bearings fail is because the thrust spacer is left in, and if the axle spacer is not used it places stress on the bearing when the axle flange is tightened. The original tapered bearings are of course stronger/optimal but many people run greens without problems either.
The thrust spacer is eliminated on my '69 with the Wilwood's.
As mentioned, I had no problems with the parking brake system and it's adjusted & working fine.

yes you will have to run green bearings, the snap-ring type. Which, from my research are a much stronger design over the flange-type green bearings.

How many miles do you have on the green bearings?

I only have about 2500 miles on the snap ring greens, they have been fine.
Also have a car with the flange type greens in it for at least 15 years now. They are also fine, however the car has stock suspension and only sees "spirited" street driving, and is not flung around corners. 

[Patronus]

I was thinking, I should prob put up er shut up on these brakes. With winter here I can get on with it and change em out.
$500 for what I got.  Anyone?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-11020-d
I think this is what I got.