Voltage Regulator

[Long Island RT]

If I am completely wiring my engine compartment from scratch, which regulator would I use?  I don't care about the stock look - in fact I want to hide as much wiring as possible.

3690731 or 3690732?

Do they both work the same but look different?  It seems the (1) is for 70+ and needs a special pigtail to plug it in?
Is there a better one I should be using?

I have an aftermarket 80 amp alternator (not sure which one but it does have two field hookups).
I'm using an MSD 6AL ignition box with a blaster 2 coil and a Pro Comp 8027 distributor.

Thanks in advance.

[Ghoste]

Personally I wouldn't use either one of those as they are both constant output regualtors and are really not suited for street use.
I would definitely use an electronic one but not those ones.  What year is your car?

[Long Island RT]

My car is a 69 RT.

Why would you not want a constant output for street use?

I should also note that I have aftermarket gauges and no anmeter.

Thanks again.

[Ghoste]

Because when demand is low it will let too much current through.  There are replacement ones available that look exactly like the stock 69 style regulator but have electronic guts in them.  I'll have to find a part number for you.

[Nacho-RT74]

as farI know there was a difference on internals of electronic regulators when electronic ignition came out to float, so cars with Elc Ign modules had one and with points had the other one. But both used same pigtail/plug

dunno really if some of those PNs are in relation with that... will search further later.

[Ghoste]

Those are the two Mopar Performance racing regulators Nacho and yes, basically one is for a 69 and older connection and the other is 70 up.

[John_Kunkel]

Because when demand is low it will let too much current through. 

The MP regulator maintains a minimum voltage, current is a product of demand.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... I though we were talking about the black stock units, what I know there are 2 of them with date to the IGN Modules equipped cars

[Long Island RT]

Although somewhat interesting, it doesn't matter to me what was stock or even why.  I just want the best performing... actually regulating... regulator that I should use for my car with it setup and intended use (tire smoking street car ).

If all things are equal - I would choose the smallest one (so I can hide it somewhere).

Thanks

[Ghoste]

Because when demand is low it will let too much current through. 

The MP regulator maintains a minimum voltage, current is a product of demand.

Hence the name "voltage" regulator.  Thanks John. 

[Nacho-RT74]

which ones are those ?

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

which ones are those ?

3690731----Mopar Performance Voltage Regulators Voltage Regulator - 13.5 V Constant Output - Race Only - Chrysler - Dodge - Plymouth 1970 & later



3690732----Mopar Performance Voltage Regulators Voltage Regulator - 13.5 V Constant Output - Race Only - Chrysler - Dodge - Plymouth 1969 & earlier




Personally I wouldn't run either on the street ( I have bold typed the reason why in the top 2 descriptions)....I would upgrade to the '70 & later dual field alternator & run the electronic resto one for reliability....I have done this on my '69

4529794-----Mopar Performance Voltage Regulators Voltage Regulator - Restoration - Chrysler - Dodge - Plymouth
Brand: Mopar Performance

[Nacho-RT74]

oh, those are!!!

yeah definitelly would get the black stock one, THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH. and upgrade to dual field alt ( if not yet on car )

if you have Elec Ign, get the later date one! I think PN also changes, Not sure on that.

[Long Island RT]

Great guys - thanks for the help 

OK - this sounds like a stupid question - My aftermarket alternator does have two field connections - does that automatically mean its a dual field - then how do I know which one to use?
I don't have an electronic ignition (well - all ignitions ar technically electronic right )  I have magnetic pickup distributor (similiar to an MSD I believe)

I'm not too bright with the electrical jargon .  Give me a fender to sand or a bolt to torque

Thanks... yet again.

[Long Island RT]

 How about this thing.....


12 VOLT CHRYSLER ADJUSTABLE VOLTAGE REGULATOR
ITEM# C8313 (same as C8312 except adjustable)

For Chrysler External Regulated Round or Square Back alternators on Cars, Trucks, Industrial Applications with 2 Field connections.

Great for increasing voltage for brighter lighting.  Just turn the dial and adjust as needed.


Features:

* 14.0 Voltage Setting, A-Circuit Neg. Grd. Solid State.
* Red Plug Connector.
* Adjustable Voltage up to 15.1V.

               

[Ghoste]

Yes, that would be a dual field alternator and it doesn't matter which one you use BUT if you only use one, make sure the other field is grounded and really, it's best to use both.  Let me ask this, does you wiring have a connector already there that would allow you to plug into the regulator you just posted a pic of?
Oh, and if you have a magnetic pickup distributor then you have electronic ignition.

[Long Island RT]

Yes - I have that plug for my wiring harness which I can use.  It'll probably be the only thing I use as the rest of the harness is toast - and doesn't even have a provision for the duel field alternator.

I've done some more searching and think I have it figured out, but please tell me if I'm off anywhere.

Here goes:

1st field from the alternator goes to the field terminal on the above regulator.

2nd field goes to the ignition terminal on the regulator.

Ignition side of regulator also has blue and brown (ign1 and 2 wires from key) and red wire from MSD.
Ballast resistor no longer needed

These are all 16 gauge wires.

I need to run a 8 gauge fusible link from the battery terminal on the starter relay to the dash connecting to the battery feed in the fuse box along with the B-1 feed on the headlamp switch and the feed to the ignition switch.  (Since I don't have ammeter gauge).

Bat hookup on the alternator is an 8 gauge wire that will also hookup to the above.  Now that I'm writing this - If this is all true - is it possible to hook this wire onto the battery stud on the starter relay?

It's also important to note that I am not using the stock bulkhead connectors.

Thanks

[Nacho-RT74]

just for some records, if you want to take some time:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html

ammeter is just fine, as far you know to play with your charging system.

Mechanical regulators gets power from ign switch, and then send regulated power ( + pole ) to alt single field brush. Both devices, the second alt brush and regulator, gets the negative by chasis. ( alt brush is grounded to complete teh magnetic field inside )

Dual field setup: regulator gets power from ign switch to activate. Same source that feed the regulator is spliced to send power to one of the alt brush... thats the positive source. Regulator gets negative source from chassis/body, and sends that negative REGULATED from the other pin to the second field/brush on alternator, This time both brushes/fields are isolated for obvious reasons.

Got it ?

and yes, since you don't have ammeter, you can hook the alt started stud, but dunno how you have really wired your car to help you on how will respond. for a 60/80 amps alt, fuse link doesn't have to be bigger than 14 gauge, and it must be located between batt ( or starter relay stud ) and the power to inside the cab.

Now If you are running alt output directly to starter relay, then yes, will be better a secondary fuse link on alt line. Stock wiring didin't need that beacuse alt line is prtiecting ALL the line to the batt

[Long Island RT]

Dual field setup: regulator gets power from ign switch to activate. Same source that feed the regulator is spliced to send power to one of the alt brush... that's the positive source. Regulator gets negative source from chassis/body, and sends that negative REGULATED from the other pin to the second field/brush on alternator, This time both brushes/fields are isolated for obvious reasons.

Got it ?

I think so   But I'm pretty slow on this.

A couple of things maybe you can clarify for the dual field setup I am trying to accomplish:

1- Ignition switch activates the regulator.  Ignition side of regulator continues on to activate the ignition (in my case the MSD) - so therefore the ignition is never regulated?  Although this line is also connected to one of the fields on the alternator, and it doesn't matter which one - but which ever it is, it will be considered the positive source? (because it eventually leads to the positive side of the battery.)

2- The negative source will come from the field terminal on the regulator and go to the other field terminal on the alternator.  This will regulate the system through the ground?

3- What's the benefit of the dual field setup?

4- In either case - I don't understand how the regulator can regulate all my accessories, lights...etc when they are directly getting fed by either the battery or the alternator?

OK -now I feel like I'm lost again.
Thanks for your patients.

[Ghoste]

It's a delicate balancing act and the regulator does just that.  It's like a traffic light.  The alternator should be able to produce a little more than all requirements combined but what happens when only the basic requirements are asking for power?  The dual field helps in a low charge-high demand situation such as idling at a traffic light at night.  It's a little more complicated than that but it should help you with the concept since they are all mathematically related.
Electrical people hate when you try and explain it in terms reserved for hydraulics but it sometimes helps to think of voltage as pressure and current as volume.  If the alternator was a high flow oil pump imagine the regulator as a variable pressure relief spring in the oil passage.  Again, the electrical people would chastise me for saying that but does the concept help to make some sense of it?

[Long Island RT]

The concept makes sense - or at least it confirms my notion that I should stop trying to understand it.
As long as you think the wiring concept I stated earlier will work - I'll be at happy.

[Nacho-RT74]

to answer number 1 and 2:

magnetic field reaction is bigger as the smaller "side" of the poles. I mean you can not get more magnetic field inside alternator if you have a little bit of the oposite field or pole because you can not have magnetic field with something that doesn't exist. Magentic fields are a balance between + and - electrical poles. So the smaller field or pole ( neg or pos ) is what will create the magnetic field... the excess of the other pole simply doesn exist because doesn't have its opossite to get increased the magnetic effect. Is simply there but without work.

So regulating just one of the fields/poles, you increase or decrease the magnetic fields inside the alt.

Alternator is not more than a disbalancing of magnetics effect when spinning. Then this disbalancing creates alternating variations on fields, creating AC Power ( thats why does call ALTERNATOR ). Then diodes bank inside the alt, separate the + side to the stud and - side to the alt chassis to feed all the car body through the block etc...

to answer 3:

dual field setup is juts because transistorized design on elec regulator was in that way, not mechanical regulation anymore like earliers working like a relay. I don't have the exact answer to that but engineers should found a reason to make that.

number 4:

Ghoste pretty much answered that. Electricity is like hidraulics. Once everthing is conected, pressure is equall on every point. To get further inside on that we could say that a BATT began to discharge on the same instant is connected. When regulator sense some decay on power, gives the order to alt ( once is spinning ) to get back the power to the system what is being consumed by from the batt. Then alt gives the extra juice that batt needs to keep full. and keeps going, and going, and going like a feedback. Thats the reason you shouldn't unplugg the batt when cengine is running, because regulator loose the static/fixed voltage relation and gets out of control. Alternator is not a fixed power source because when spinning does have high variations. The variations are sensed by regulator and increases the power to the alt and this gives more power, regulator stops, get a decay on power again, then regulator sense low power again and going and going as far the variatiosn are on alt. If you unplugg the batt with engine running, you'll notice lot of dimming on lights because regulator lost its constant and static power relation or reading.

[Long Island RT]

Nacho and Ghoste - great stuff in helping a mere mortal figure this out!

You guys really helped me - Thanks