RFID - Plan to Tax Motorists on mileage...

[JoeyGowdy]

Heard this on the news then found it online... it seems to be leading to personal RFID implants to track and tax everyone:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090221/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/lahood_vehicle_mileage_tax

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WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama on Friday rejected his transportation secretary's suggestion that the administration consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive instead of how much gasoline they buy.

"It is not and will not be the policy of the Obama administration," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters, when asked for the president's thoughts about Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood's suggestion, raised in an interview with The Associated Press a daily earlier.

Gasoline taxes that for nearly half a century have paid for the federal share of highway and bridge construction can no longer be counted on to raise enough money to keep the nation's transportation system moving, LaHood told the AP.

"We should look at the vehicular miles program where people are actually clocked on the number of miles that they traveled," the former Illinois Republican lawmaker said in the AP interview.

LaHood spokeswoman Lori Irving said Friday that the secretary was speaking of the idea only in general terms, not as something being implemented as administration policy.

Most transportation experts see a vehicle miles-traveled tax as a long-term solution, but Congress is being urged to move in that direction now by funding pilot projects.

The idea also is gaining ground in several states. The governor of Idaho is talking about such a program. A North Carolina panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax. Rhode Island's governor, however, has expressed opposition to a panel's recommendation in December that the state charge motorists a half-cent for every mile driven in addition to the gas tax.

A tentative plan in Massachusetts to use GPS chips in vehicles to charge motorists by the mile has drawn complaints from drivers who say it's an Orwellian intrusion by government into the lives of citizens. Other motorists say it eliminates an incentive to drive more fuel-efficient cars since gas guzzlers will be taxed at the same rate as fuel sippers.

Besides a VMT tax, more tolls for highways and bridges and more government partnerships with business to finance transportation projects are other funding options, LaHood, one of two Republicans in Obama's Cabinet, said in the interview Thursday.

"What I see this administration doing is this — thinking outside the box on how we fund our infrastructure in America," he said.

LaHood said he firmly opposes raising the federal gasoline tax in the current recession.

The program that funds the federal share of highway projects is part of a surface transportation law that expires Sept. 30. Last fall, Congress made an emergency infusion of $8 billion to make up for a shortfall between gas tax revenues and the amount of money promised to states for their projects. The gap between money raised by the gas tax and the cost of maintaining the nation's highway system and expanding it to accommodate population growth is forecast to continue to widen.

Among the reasons for the gap is a switch to more fuel-efficient cars and a decrease in driving that many transportation experts believe is related to the economic downturn. Electric cars and alternative-fuel vehicles that don't use gasoline are expected to start penetrating the market in greater numbers.

A blue-ribbon national transportation commission is expected to release a report next week recommending a VMT tax.

The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped with global satellite positioning technology, a transponder, a clock and other equipment to record how many miles a vehicle was driven, whether it was driven on highways or secondary roads, and even whether it was driven during peak traffic periods or off-peak hours.

The device would tally how much tax motorists owed depending upon their road use. Motorists would pay the amount owed when it was downloaded, probably at gas stations at first, but an alternative eventually would be needed.

Rob Atkinson, chairman of the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing Commission, the blue-ribbon group that is developing future transportation funding options, said moving to a national VMT tax would take about a decade.

Privacy concerns are based more on perception than any actual risk, Atkinson said. The satellite information would be beamed one way to the car and driving information would be contained within the device on the car, with the amount of the tax due the only information that's downloaded, he said.
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[skip68]

Man, I think that would be just too hard to try and make work.   

[AKcharger]

Well if when they make those implants law to do away with pesky credit cards and identity theft I want mine in either my right hand or forehead!

[Silver R/T]

Good thing I have charger, not much electronic crap in it.

[2Gunz]

I have an idea.....

why not take the money for the tracking boxes, the research money, the consultation money,
the bean counter money, and the bureaucracy money......

And use that to fix the roads!

And lets face it this will NEVER replace a gas tax. It will be in addition to it.

Why?

How do you account for all the things that take gas but dont really transport people.

Lawn mowers
tractors
weed eaters
generators
leaf blowers

the list goes on .....

[Dodge Don]

Well if when they make those implants law to do away with pesky credit cards and identity theft I want mine in either my right hand or forehead!

Not going to happen. The form factors will evolve but PayPass will never be in your body.

[RD]

another reason to pull a gilligan and go live on some uncharted desert isle.

[W4ATL]

We can't get people to buy and hook up a digital converter box so they can watch digital TV on their old analog TV. How in the world is the government going to get people to hook a GPS unit to their 20th century auto? Won't work unless it is mandatory in new cars and only applies to new cars.

[The70RT]

Never gonna happen. We have more of a chance on going totally electric or some sort of green by then. If it did happen I would probably get a tax break. I fill up once every 3-4 weeks.

[RallyeMike]

I'm going to start driving my lawn mower to work.

[Ghoste]

You already started a thread on these things once, it must be a real phobia of yours?

[TruckDriver]

I read 3 or 4 days ago that Obama shot down this proposel, and even scolded the people who thought of it.

[tricky lugnuts]

Obama smacked LaHood down for pitching the idea as White House policy - but is it really hard to see that this is the way most bureaucrats want to go?

They're already putting the same technology in U.S. Passports and many of the new "REAL ID" compliant drivers licenses. Just saying.

[Todd Wilson]

Its idiot thoughts like this that we have to put up with. I am surprised Yobama shot the idea down.   I do not want government watching over my driving.  But on the other hand  take away the gas tax they charge now at the pump   and let the little device rack up the tax.  The miles my wife and I drive every month would be far less via the GPS tracker then what I am currently paying to fill up the vehicles.   As for the toys it would cost me a few dollars a year in "tax" to drive them verses the 45 cents a gallon thats taxed now when I fill up the Chargers 1-2 times a year.

The idiot that came up with this probably thinks the nations semi trucks are tearing up the roads and they should be punsihed/taxed as they drive more then others.

What the idiot and Yobama need to do  is stop using the road tax for other stuff. Leave the road tax in its own account and use it for road repairs.


Todd

[Dodge Don]

Obama smacked LaHood down for pitching the idea as White House policy - but is it really hard to see that this is the way most bureaucrats want to go?

They're already putting the same technology in U.S. Passports and many of the new "REAL ID" compliant drivers licenses. Just saying.

These cannot be read from space or any other great distance. You are talking about 4 to 6 Centimeters at best. This is not the same as transponders or GPS systems that can send signals long distance. A microchip on a card or other such form factor cannot have the power to transmit that far and only gets it's power from the actual reader. I'm involved in RFID technology heavily.

[mauve66]

What the idiot and Yobama need to do  is stop using the road tax for other stuff. Leave the road tax in its own account and use it for road repairs.


Todd

EXACTLY, not all road taxes actually get used for the highways, AMTRAK gets a government infusion from this tax every year and they are a PRIVATE company

[Mike DC]

The airline industry gets all kinds of direct & indirect govt help, and they're competing with train lines like AMTRAK. 

Increased rail traffic is the way of the future IMHO.  There are good points about flying planes & driving on the interstate, but it really doesn't make much sense to abandon rail traffic as much as we have.

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The pay-by-mile issue has been floated before, usually in terms of insurance companies rather than replacing gas taxes.  We all pay insurance rates without a mileage component in the math.  Those who drive less are effectively subsidizing those who drive more right now.

[mauve66]

if they do i'll just unhook the speedo or use aluminum foil around the GPS sensor, worked on the satellite tracker they had in my tractor trailer, i'd blame it on sunspots, wrap it up then drive home and unwrap it the next day when i was SUPPOSED to get home...............

[bull]

I have an idea.....

why not take the money for the tracking boxes, the research money, the consultation money,
the bean counter money, and the bureaucracy money......

And use that to fix the roads!

Because it's rarely about making life better as much as it is squeezing more money out of us. They'll spend millions to figure out new ways to tax the piss out of us before they spend thousands on improving our lives.

[Mike DC]

       
Right now I think congress/pres may also have the long-term gas price level in mind too.


The $4/gal gasoline spike caused a major burst of interest & serious talk about reducing our dependence on crude oil.  But then all that motivation just goes up in smoke again when gas falls back to $2/gal.

 
   

[bull]

       
Right now I think congress/pres may also have the long-term gas price level in mind too.


The $4/gal gasoline spike caused a major burst of interest & serious talk about reducing our dependence on crude oil.  But then all that motivation just goes up in smoke again when gas falls back to $2/gal.

 
   

Maybe. I would think taxing mileage rather than gas would do a lot to counteract some motivation to build high mpg cars too since a person driving a gas hog would actually be taxed less if they drove less than a person driving something that gets 50 mpg.

Chances are in the end the govt. would just add the mileage tax on top of the gas tax though. You rarely see a tax disappear.

[Ghoste]

Ain't that the truth.  There may also be an argument to made that having gas as a speculative commodity is its own deterrent; a sort of floating tax.  When the price was high people drove much less, the reason gas has dropped so much in price is because with the whole world out of work no one is buying the stuff.  To a degree anyway, I fully realize that it is a far from perfect argument.

[Mike DC]

I totally agree.  You rarely see a tax actually disappear for anything no matter who is in charge.


You all probably know my opinion in the big picture.  It makes no sense to me to talk about all this when we're still subsidizing oil in all kinds of indirect ways.  Just tearing down some of that stuff would make a lot of difference.