ideas for top half ?

[badass]

I'm open for offers,voice your opinion, speak your piece, let ER rip!This is what I got going so far shortblock 440 bored .020"oversize badger flat top pistons 10 to 1 with open chamber heads 213 "73"motorhome heads, slightly ported new three angle valvejob and matching spring  stuff from comp cams cam kit CRB  XE26BH-10. I am running a 727 auto with a hard shifting transgo shiftkit 323 rear possibly a 355 in the future. this is in a big b body 71 dodge charger R/T. The body is all stock and wont see many if any trips to the stripmore like a street cruiser .My main concerns are I would d like a  crisp throttle response and low maintenance by low maintenance I mean ready to go when I am  and hopefully not have to work on it after every trip and to be able to drive it on  expressway. OK cam specs are 477/480 lift 224/230 dur. I got a factory cast iron manifold "71" but still need a carb and everything up top distributor and so on.

[badass]

More info.stock torque converter ,no headers yet but hp manifolds with 2.5"exhaust,225x70x14 tires all the way around,but have a set of 10" rims for it no tires yet.Theres a 70 383 hp motor in it now it runs really good but with it being a 440 car I wantedto charge it back .Now I got a date correct motor that needed rebuilt the bottom is done my friends want me to go all out but as you can tell by the bottom to much $$ and I want to drive around on the street ,but I cant put up with no hesatation or bog. There laughing at my cast iron original manifolds intake and exhaust.               Anyway IM going to sell my complete hp 383 top to bottom avs carb to windage tray  oi l pan.the only thing ever done to it was the timing chain and gears .

[badass]

Boy that was helpful.

[Challenger340]

Do you know what the Compression Distance on the Badger Piston is ?

It's just that I don't believe that "those" are 10:1 with an open Chamber head.

Flat Top or not, they're ALL Flat-Tops.
Better CHECK !

Rest of it looks ok, but you'll want to make sure it's as close to 9.5:1 as possible to keep it "crisp" on Pump fuel.

Bob out.

[firefighter3931]

Do you know what the Compression Distance on the Badger Piston is ?

It's just that I don't believe that "those" are 10:1 with an open Chamber head.

Flat Top or not, they're ALL Flat-Tops.
Better CHECK !

Rest of it looks ok, but you'll want to make sure it's as close to 9.5:1 as possible to keep it "crisp" on Pump fuel.

Bob out.

Bob is right....the badger is a low compression piston and using an open chmber head with 90cc only aggrivates the soft low end response. 



Ron

[badass]

double checked guys, compression distance is 1.984 compression 10:1 badger Part#p278 according to machinist who orderd pistons. Im going to try to check with badger to see what they say. Thanks for heads up but there allready in the block.

[firefighter3931]

double checked guys, compression distance is 1.984 compression 10:1 badger Part#p278 according to machinist who orderd pistons. Im going to try to check with badger to see what they say. Thanks for heads up but there allready in the block.

The advertised compression is often very different from the measured compression. Get a piston to deck measurement and a chamber volume on your cylinder heads and we'll calculate the actual static compression ratio and advise from there.

Fwiw, those are shorter than the speedpro 2266 forged pistons which typically yield 8.5:1 with an open chambered head. The only way to know for sure is to measure and calculate.


Ron

[badass]

ok the measurements are .10 from the piston to the deck 4.340 bore and open chamber heads cc s ?,between 86and90 ? need to cc it. they are 73 213 motorhome heads.

[firefighter3931]

ok the measurements are .10 from the piston to the deck 4.340 bore and open chamber heads cc s ?,between 86and90 ? need to cc it. they are 73 213 motorhome heads.

Ok, assuming a 90cc chamber and using the .020 steel shim head gasket with those deckheight measurements i come up with 8.6:1 static compression. 

Using an 80cc chamber the compression jumps up to a much better 9.33:1 


So, you have a couple of options here : mill your heads down to 80cc or get a set of closed chamber 915's.




Ron

[badass]

Why do they advertize 10.1to 1 compression when its so much lower the factory orig. heads were the same open chamber andI was worried about the compression being to high,10.1:1advertized badgerpistons plus closed chamber heads = apx. 11.1:1 thinking to much for pump gas went with closed chamber pistons trying to get 10:1 compression but now I got 8.6:1 thats not a high proformance engine.

[Challenger340]

Yeah, thats kind of what I was alluding to.

Badger = "popcorn fart" for compression.

By the time you mill enough off your open chamber heads to get to 9.5:1, you'll need to correct the Intake faces on the heads as well, so the Manifold fits,
AND,
you'll also need to go get an adjustable Valvetrain/Rockers etc., even for the xe268 Cam, because with THAT much Head milling, the Hydraulic lifters won't have room for preload.

Tough break.

[Rob R]

If my memory serves a 4.340 bore at .010 in the hole with that MP steel shim gasket that has 4.400 bore diam and a head with a 92 cc chamber (that's what most are that I have checked) will have a 10-1 static compression...
IMHO those badger pistons are crap...they just don't hold the ring pack...ring lands get real LOOSE after about a 1000 miles...I've found that they are leaking about 30% after a very short time...they just are not a perf piston...but you will have a 10-1 compression with a .010 deck and that MP steel shim gasket...

[badass]

thats .10 in the hole not .010

[Rob R]

Most guys would have said .100 in the hole (wondered why everyone was soooo low)...well that should give you a cr of a hair over 8 to 1 without actually figuring it out...that should ping like no tomorrow  ...
all the best on your build...

[superduperbee]

I cant put up with no hesatation or bog. There laughing at my cast iron original manifolds intake and exhaust.             

Once you get the compression thing worked out, Get rid of the iron manifolds. I would go with a set of 1 3/4" primary tube headers. On the intake side an Edelbrock Performer RPM and a 750 or 800 cfm Performer,  Thunder Series or AFB carb. You can get tuning kits for these carbs. Throttle response is crisp and I've always gotten better mileage than with a Holley. The Holley will make a  couple more horsepower, but for a street car you want the throttle response.

[badass]

Got my compression higher apx. 9.5-9.6 , Milled my heads .055 to get 77cc. heads, looking at 9.250 pushrods can only find chevy though,need ball tips I dont know if oil hole will hurt oil flow?

[badass]

 Thats .060 milled off the heads to make 77cc. to make 9.5-9.6cr anybody ever go there before ?

[Challenger340]

Go where ?

to 9.5:1 CR with iron heads ?

Yeah it'll run OK.

[badass]

OK let me rephrase my lingo has anyone out there ever milled openchamber heads .060 in the 9.5cr range? I got the right pushrods now I'm waiting on a midpan my valleypan don't match.

[firefighter3931]

OK let me rephrase my lingo has anyone out there ever milled openchamber heads .060 in the 9.5cr range? I got the right pushrods now I'm waiting on a midpan my valleypan don't match.

Yes you can mill .060 off the dek surface of the head but you must also remove .072 off the intake surface or you will have a big misalignment. The problem with doing that is that it makes the intake mounting surface of the head awefully thin which can cause valvecover sealing issues. Another option is to mill the intake manifold down but then that intake is only usable on that engine...it won't work well with a stock spec engine in the future.


If it were me....i'd mill the intake down and leave the intake side of the head alone. 



Ron

[badass]

Its to late for that your right its pretty thin where the valvecovers seal.all I can do now is try to seal them carefully Doubt if studs would help.I don't like these heads or pistons.oh well its time to find out how it runs .my 383 lost oil pressure on Sat. and the lifters are rattling bad .Have to put in the 440 now .

[badass]

Got 440 in yesterday ,bolted up now wires, linkage ,hoses , exct. were coming.

[craigandlynda]

for what it's worth, for street driving, i've always done better with LESS cfm rather than more...750 would be the upper limit, no matter which carb you choose...

[badass]

my friend talked me into buying his ARD holley 750 double pumper he said he will show me how to tune it for what I want he is a competitive drag racer and Think it may be too much carb but he says its just right with the RPM manifold,that stuff shure does set up high with my factory air cleaner no way.might have to get high throttle cable linkage hope not.looks real mean though. I guess the top half is about complete now 6mths later . Thanks everyone. I still want and like the input feal free,thats diffrent thanfree feel .Thanks though :2thumbs:looks like John McCain at the convention

[firefighter3931]

The AED carbs are excellent....you will like it 

Be prepared to run a taller throttle linkage bracket and possibly a longer throttle cable. You will also need the 20-7 throttle adapter for that carb which is a Mopar specific piece. The RPM sits high so you will also need a 1.25in drop base air cleaner assembly depending on your model year Charger.



Ron