Modifing my '69 Charger versus building/restoring a '69 or'70 Charger R/T

[CB]

I am in a dead end street here.

I own an (old &worn) 69 Charger, still very complete, with some of the goodies like console/buckets, big block, posi rear,...
My ultimate goal is to build a streetable Charger with a high HP build 440 engine, Willwood(?) disk brakes,TTI exhaust,PST front end rebuild, etc. Build with all top products.

Now if my starting point would be an R/T I don't have problems investing 10-15K on it.
Would you spend this amount on a regular 69 Charger?
Or would you sell it and start looking for an R/T and spend the 10-15K on her?

I could buy a 15K Charger R/T once the 69 is sold and invest the other 10-15K. I know it wont be close to finished but it is a real R/T
My dream car must be  build my way (ordering a rebuild 440, brand new trans with new driveshaft etc,... you know).

What's your advise? What would you do?

[Blown70]

I say build what you want.  People like their cars in different ways.  That is something you need to decide.

I say if it is an R/T maybe restore with a few good internals.

IF not have a good time with the plain charger and make her more driveable....

[Blakcharger440]

I also say build what you want to and drive it like you want to! 

[ChargerBill]

CB, I'm probably going to get a lot of heat for this from owners of REAL R/T's, but here's the way it looks. Having an R/T badge that was factory installed ONLY matters to hard core collectors and gnumbers gurus...and those guys make up a VERY small percentage of the buying public. Also, if you were going to keep the car numbers matching and do a concourse restoration then THAT is the ONLY way you keep the value of the car. If you are going to alter the car (like it sounds you are) then you are better off creating an R/T clone and altering it and leaving the real R/T for someone who has the time, money and patience to properly restore it. As far as value goes, here's the truth of the matter; a higher percentage of people are looking for and are going to pay top dollar for a nicely restified and UPGRADED muscle car than are going to do the same for a completely original bone stock muscle car. The restified and upgraded car is safer, more reliable, and if you beat it a little you won't hurt it's value. I have a few buddies with million dollar Cuda's who are afraid to drive them...in fact, one of these guys built a Cuda Hemi Clone to drive...kind of sad. Sure, you may not get the $50K for a pristine '69 Charger R/T clone that a concourse R/T in the same shape would get, but you'll easily get $35K for it. The exception of course is if you make an accurate clone and put a Hemi in in...then you could get $50K easily and maybe upwards of $70K.

Build what you have, make it exactly what you want and because it's not a "real" R/T you won't be afraid to drive it. When you're ready to sell it don't worry, the value will still be there.

EDIT: Oh, one last thing...if you look in the Old Car Price Guide you'll note that standard '69 Chargers are actually valued higher than '69 R/T Chargers...go figure.

[Old Moparz]

For me personally, I'd build the car anyway I chose regardless of whether it was a base car with a 318 or an R/T with all the goodies. I wanted a '69 but found a solid '68 for a price that was impossible to pass on & will change it with a tail panel swap in the end. It's easy to get caught up in "What's it worth?" or "Should I keep it stock?" but in the end, it's your car & nobody else's. Since you're not in the US & have a tougher time getting cars, that would also be a big factor in working with what you have. I'd stick with what you have & build it the way you will enjoy it. I don't think modifying it hurts the value unless it's one of very, very, low production that's highly sought after like a Hemi convertible.

Most people are building a driver & not a museum piece to stare at. It would make more sense to upgrade it so it's safer & more fun to get behind the wheel. One more thing to consider, like Charger Bill mentioned, is that if you have a base car & restify that, you'll be more inclined to drive the hell out of it. If it breaks, fix it again & you'll still be ahead financially.

[MichaelRW]

CB, I'm probably going to get a lot of heat for this from owners of REAL R/T's, but here's the way it looks. Having an R/T badge that was factory installed ONLY matters to hard core collectors and gnumbers gurus...and those guys make up a VERY small percentage of the buying public. Also, if you were going to keep the car numbers matching and do a concourse restoration then THAT is the ONLY way you keep the value of the car. If you are going to alter the car (like it sounds you are) then you are better off creating an R/T clone and altering it and leaving the real R/T for someone who has the time, money and patience to properly restore it. As far as value goes, here's the truth of the matter; a higher percentage of people are looking for and are going to pay top dollar for a nicely restified and UPGRADED muscle car than are going to do the same for a completely original bone stock muscle car. The restified and upgraded car is safer, more reliable, and if you beat it a little you won't hurt it's value. I have a few buddies with million dollar Cuda's who are afraid to drive them...in fact, one of these guys built a Cuda Hemi Clone to drive...kind of sad. Sure, you may not get the $50K for a pristine '69 Charger R/T clone that a concourse R/T in the same shape would get, but you'll easily get $35K for it. The exception of course is if you make an accurate clone and put a Hemi in in...then you could get $50K easily and maybe upwards of $70K.

Build what you have, make it exactly what you want and because it's not a "real" R/T you won't be afraid to drive it. When you're ready to sell it don't worry, the value will still be there.

EDIT: Oh, one last thing...if you look in the Old Car Price Guide you'll note that standard '69 Chargers are actually valued higher than '69 R/T Chargers...go figure.

I agree with you except for the last sentence about the Old Price Guide. The December issue which I have in front of me now prices a 1969 standard condition #1 Charger at $38,000 and the R/T at $52,000.

[694spdRT]

As far as value goes, here's the truth of the matter; a higher percentage of people are looking for and are going to pay top dollar for a nicely restified and UPGRADED muscle car than are going to do the same for a completely original bone stock muscle car. The restified and upgraded car is safer, more reliable, and if you beat it a little you won't hurt it's value.

Bill,

I agree with you for the most part and I own one of those "factory" cars. Whether a factory restored car or modified car will bring more money can depend on many things. I would likely not have gone to the extent I did except for the fact, in my opinion, the options made it worthy of a factory restoration. True collector's will likely not agree as it falls a little short with a non #'s matching drivetrain.

I like the car's that are being upgraded with 5 speeds, modern brakes, suspension, etc.   especially when those cars are being driven often. To me it offers the best of the old and new in a classic car that will never be produced again. The glitch I see with your above thought might be if the modifications are so radical that is appeals to a very limited market. I, for one, am not really into custom paintjobs, interiors, and things like that. There is nothing wrong with doing it but, those things seem to fall more into that personal preference category. At the time of sale a potential buyer will have to like it that way or be willing to pay to correct it.

BTW...to get top dollar right now most people are looking for a orange '69 with a flag, push bar, and dixie horn.  

[hotrod98]

I'm faced with a similar dilemma. I own a 69 R/T SE triple black charger that is in need of a total resto. It has had a small amount of rust repair in the lower quarters and the original engine and tranny are long gone, but I have the data plate to verify the triple black thing. I really want to use this car to build a daytona, but everyone seems to think that altering the back window area will affect the future value. However, in my opinion, reworking the rear window area back to it's original state later on would be no more difficult than repairing extensive rust in the same area.
In my case, I have little desire to restore the car to it's original status. I've owned several R/T's and really want something different. I've looked for other decent candidates for cloning and have yet to find anything worth using. I'm going to use the car. That's my final answer...I think.
I guess what I'm saying in regard to this thread is that I wouldn't expect a lot of profit for a nice restored R/T in comparison to the cost of the resto. If your car is worth 10k unrestored and the resto is 20k, I wouldn't expect to sell it for anything in excess of 30k. I've seen several very nice R/T's with fresh resto's going for under 30k.
Bottom line...forget the future. We don't have a clue what's going to happen 10 or 20 years from now. The government may ban our cars, gas may be $25 a gallon or we may be in a major depression and cars will be worthless altogether. I hope not in all of the above scenarios.
Just do whatever feels right. It's your car...enjoy it.

[cudaken]

 CB, you love your Charger right? Only way I would sell it for a real R/T would be if you want to move up to a 440-6, Hemi or Wing car later. More than likely after you get the real R/T the way you want it, you will spend the profit margen before you sell it anyway.

Way I look at it is all the body's are the same, 318 Charger with a romping stomping 440 and with the major up grades can wear a R/T badge with the same pride as a real R/T. Was not the body's fault if they messed up and dropped a 318 or a 383 in them.

Final question, are you a hot rodder or a bamker?

                                    Cuda Ken

[Silver R/T]

I say build it way youll enjoy it, Ill build my R/T way i like it

[ChargerBill]

The December issue which I have in front of me now prices a 1969 standard condition #1 Charger at $38,000 and the R/T at $52,000.

I don't anything more recent than late last year, but that issue does show the standard Charger being worth more. Could be a type-o...but an issue from back in 2001 that I have also shows the plain-jane Charger being worth more. I always thought it strange though, so it looks like they rectified it. R/T being worth more makes more sense...

[ChargerBill]

Bill,

I agree with you for the most part.....The glitch I see with your above thought might be if the modifications are so radical that is appeals to a very limited market. I, for one, am not really into custom paintjobs, interiors, and things like that.

I agree with you here. Anything too radical or out of the ordinary just ruins the car IMO. Crushed velvet and murals are for lowriders, 20" bling-wheels with hydraulic suspension are for rappers, and blowers and tubbed rear ends are great for the track, but very few people want a track car to drive around town. Do what you want, but to maintain resale value (if that's really important to you) don't hack it up or do anything drastic...or worse, tasteless.

[6pkrunner]

You can build it exactly as you see fit and not worry about hurting the value of an original R/T. The high end cars are now more investments than hobby cars and most owners are loathe to touch them for fear of destroying their value. With a base car - built a hot clone or whatever and have fun.

[Mopar440+6]

Hey CB. I say keep what youve got and build it up the way you want it. Ive seen that car  and youve got a VERY solid car(at least compared to my rustbucket). Its a good candidate for a full restomod. If you would ever decide to sell it yea having a factory R/T would help but with a non-R/T you dont have to worry about modifications costing you final value on the car. Ill help with getting parts to you if you need it. Those slot-mags look great on that car BTW!   

[OldGuy]

Keep your 69 and build it out the way you want to.  Put the stripe and R/T badging on it and the Chevy and Ford guys will never know the difference

[cudaken]

 Heck Old Guy, most people here in the states don't know what that little red R/T stands for, much less in Belgium.

                                   Cuda Ken

[Jon Smith]

You cant see the badges when you're driving it anyway
I dont give a toss that mines not an RT, its faster than one anyway

[CB]

Thanks to your thoughts on it I start to accept the fact I really don't need a Road and Track 69 Charger to be able to build my ultimate car.

I can build a very cool Charger without hacking it up or tuning it into a drag car.
And to be honest, I'd rather would own a modified Charger then a 100 point resto R/T?
Not wrong with that last, all respect!
And yes, how would take his high $ resto car out for (daily) driving or driving to work.

So thanks to you guys for your imput and clearing things out here, you guys rock 
CB

[Brock Samson]

If your '69s a keeper do whatever the heck ya' want!