Dyno Results from my 440 at local car show!

[69chargerdad]

What do you think of these #'s? These were taken last sunday at a local car show in lake villa, IL. Our engine has about 1000 miles on it from the rebuild and please keep in mind these are rwhp figures. I guessed at abiout 300 hp or so at the wheels and around 350 ft lbs of torque. What do you think the hp and torque #'s are at the engine and what do you think it will do in the 1/4?

[69chargerdad]

heres the specs on the engine and chasis

Cubic inches--- 440 .30 over=446

Carb--- 750 speed demon w/ vac secondaries downjeted primaries 2 sizes down to 74's

Ignition--- MP electronic ignition w/ mp coil taylor 8mm wires and ngk plugs

Cam--- Comp Cams XE275HL .525 lift IN & EX, duration 231 IN @.5 and 237 EX @.5, 110* lobe separation angle, hydraulic lifters, and 1.5 pro magnum rocker arms

Intake--- Stock hp dual plane

Fuel--- 93 pump gas

Heads--- ported 906 heads, 2.14, and 1.81 valves w/ throat cut and mild porting,  & hardened exhaust seats

Tranny---  rebuilt 727, w/ tci holeshot converter

Rear End---  8 ¾ sure grip

Gear Ratio---  355

Tire Info/Size---  295/50 series radials (26"dia)Dayton Daytona tires grade a traction

Body---  1969(2nd gen charger)

Weight--- estimated 3800 lbs plus driver

Compression- - - 4.350 bore with stock 3.75 stroke zero decked with diamond flat top pistons True 93cc polished and deshrouded combustion chambers, with gasket equates to a true 9.56  to 1

Suspension/other---  stock rt hd leaf springs and pinion snubber

Exhaust---  1  7/8th  primary tube ceramic coated tti headers to a 2  ½ inch X-pipe exhaust

ET---  ?

MPH---  ?

Location--- Chicago Elevation---  600 ft

Do you think that I can pull more power through tuning? The air fuel ratio was the closest to ideal of all the cars before me, do you think any more power could be found in carb tunning or timing. the timing is set at a total of 36* advance fully engaged at 2400. All mechanical the vacum advance has been pluged. initial timing was set be advancing the timing until the idle rpms stopped increasing.

[Mefirst]

My guess is you'd run something in the range of 13sec on the 1/4

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

That is a nice street build.....should be good for low 13's with descent traction. A better intake manifold would help it make more power up top.


Ron

[Shakey]

That is COOL stuff.   

I'd say 297hp at the rear wheels makes for one mean street machine - and looks to boot!   

[tan top]

charger looks good ,like the other guys say  some were in the 13 , at about 102  i reckon

[4402tuff4u]

Nice numbers in my book and very sharp looking Charger! I can't wait to get mine running to hook mine up to a dyno too! I would be more than happy with those numbers! I know that those cordura nylon straps are strong, it's just a bit scary to see a Charger putting out it's full power with just those straps holding on. Yikes!!

I was curious since my 68 Charger R/T is one legged without suregrip, will that have any impact on the hp & torque numbers at a dyno? I know for a fact that it will hurt me on the track!

[69chargerdad]

4402tuff4u  i don't think that an open diferential would hurt you on the dyno as long as your tires remain in direct contact but i don't know for sure. And yes the straps are very strong, strong enough to hold my car back on the first run which isn't on the sheet, when it downshifted to first and through the hp reading to 365. Avery scary moment of my life. But thankfully thats over

firefighter3931 based on my combo what intake manifold do you think would fit my car best and how much power would i gain. i was looking into the holley street dominator. i have seen many builds with this intake and I have also seen dyno results of direct intake manifold comparisons that rate it over other intakes like the torker, torker 2 as well as others. I really want to get into the 12's. thanks again

[firefighter3931]

firefighter3931 based on my combo what intake manifold do you think would fit my car best and how much power would i gain. i was looking into the holley street dominator. i have seen many builds with this intake and I have also seen dyno results of direct intake manifold comparisons that rate it over other intakes like the torker, torker 2 as well as others. I really want to get into the 12's. thanks again

On a mild build like yours, the performer rpm would be my choice. The cam is small and the gearing is relatively tall (3.55) so you need an intake that builds torque while being able to move enough air up top. My buddy has a build very close to yours with a little more cam and gear and he runs 11.80's with the performer rpm. The car is heavy as well (3700 lbs).

Inmo, you don't have enough motor to use up all of the street dominator's plenum....and you will loose some tq down low. On my own engine ; the performer rpm was 30ftlbs better below 3500 rpm while the SD pulled away over 6000 rpm on the top end....about 25hp better. The performer rpm would make significantly better TQ and HP numbers vs. the stock intake. As much as i like the SD, it's not the right manifold for every application, inmo. On a 500 + hp combo with 3500 stall and 4.10 gears, the SD is an excellent choice.

On a build like yours, i wouldn't surprised to see a 35-40 increase in HP and at least 25 ftlbs of torque, possibly more.


Ron

[Silver R/T]

good numbers

[69chargerdad]

firefighter3931 isn't the performer rpm aprox 1.5 inches higher than the stock manifold. If so is will this interefere with hood clearences? I hvae heard of people using a 1.25" drop base air filter but can this be used with the stock 440 magnum air filter housing/cover? Thanks Again

[firefighter3931]

firefighter3931 isn't the performer rpm aprox 1.5 inches higher than the stock manifold. If so is will this interefere with hood clearences? I hvae heard of people using a 1.25" drop base air filter but can this be used with the stock 440 magnum air filter housing/cover? Thanks Again

The performer rpm will require a 1.25in drop base....the stock aircleaner will not clear. If you're intent on running the stock air cleaner assembly then your next best option is a vintage Edelbrock CH4B manifold. These are no longer in production but come up for sale often on e-bay for ~ $100.00 or so. This manifold will work with the factory aircleaner. The ch4b is also a dual plane so it will have the same low end characteristics as the RPM intake w/o the hood clearance issues. It will give up a little to the Performer Rpm in terms of power....but not much, and still be miles ahead of the factory piece.

Ron

[Shakey]

This thread might help you with the air cleaner clearance issues.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13843.0.html

[69chargerdad]

thanks firefighter i will begin to look on ebay, also thanks to shakey for the informative link

[69chargerdad]

On a mild build like yours, the performer rpm would be my choice. The cam is small and the gearing is relatively tall (3.55) so you need an intake that builds torque while being able to move enough air up top. My buddy has a build very close to yours with a little more cam and gear and he runs 11.80's with the performer rpm. The car is heavy as well (3700 lbs).

Wow, thats extremely quick for the weight of the car. Do you happen to have the specs on that build???

Marcus

[firefighter3931]

On a mild build like yours, the performer rpm would be my choice. The cam is small and the gearing is relatively tall (3.55) so you need an intake that builds torque while being able to move enough air up top. My buddy has a build very close to yours with a little more cam and gear and he runs 11.80's with the performer rpm. The car is heavy as well (3700 lbs).

Wow, thats extremely quick for the weight of the car. Do you happen to have the specs on that build???

Marcus

Sure Marcus ;

446 ci
six pack speedpro pistons
915 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves
Performer rpm with a 750 double pump holley
MP 509 hydraulic cam
Hooker Comp 17/8 x 3 headers
727 with 3500 stall
4.10 SG with a detroit locker
Caltrac traction bars with stock leafsprings
MT 28x11.50 et drags (slicks)

All this in a full street trim 73 Cuda that weighs 3700 w/o driver. The car is super consistent and he and his son go lots of rounds and bring home the bacon on race day.

I had an old TM7 race single plane with an 850 dp holley carb and lent it to him to try out to compare to the Performer Rpm/750 dp. Well the car lost torque and was slower in the 1/8th mile and 60ft times. He said that it did feel a lot weaker on the bottom end compared to the RPM intake and that was reflected in the timeslips.

This engine is probably a legitimate 450 hp combo so it's not using up all the Performer RPm's plenum while taking advantage of the increased bottom end power the dual plane produces. In contrast, my own engine was choked off by the RPM but it's a much stouter build making almost 100hp more than my friends. In that instance the Street Dominator showed it's stuff on the Dyno testing we did when comparing  the two. I went with the Street Dominator because with a 4200 stall ; i wasn't too concerned with what the engine is doing below that threshold and focused more on the top end power....where the engine will be shifted.

It's an apples to oranges comparison with a mild iron head, hydraulic cam combo compared to a stouter solid cammed, ported aluminum headed motor that pulls well to 6500. Each respective build requires the proper manifold to make it all work well together. You could swap manifolds between these two motors and they would work pretty good....but you wouldn't be getting the best of either of them with the wrong (mismatched) intake.

Hope that helps.


Ron


Ps. Here's a pic of the two jokers in the winner's circle, again