Couple questions and salute from an old hand

[aifilaw]

Back when the old board existed I was a 5,000+ post count schmuck that spent most of his time writing articles and arguing with firefighter.
Came back a while ago and quickly found that chryco and firefighter and a few others were on top of the game as far as answering questions within 30 seconds of them being posted, so I sort of felt like I was no longer needed.

Well hello to all who remember me, hello to those who don't. Chryco buddy, did you ever get out of Canada??! It's been a long time since I saw you at the show in Okie.

Well, I still own my charger, but as expected I got extremely broke in the later years of college, couple that with getting married, paying for my own wedding and honeymoon, finding a job...and now a girl on the way, due in early July of this year...the Bank account is on the fritz.
The charger had a few leaks and maintainence with the tired old stock 383 I threw in after I blew my race engine years ago, I ended up buying the camaro with the 350 I built for my best friend off of him when he upgraded to a corvette. Side business in head porting and engine building has sloped off to nothing for me, so no extra income to be found. But every day I look outside at the charger and wish she was th way I want her...but that's about $10-20,000 away probably. Luckily my wife is a pilot and fantastic, and refuses to even consider the idea of selling the car for whatever reason, which is great.

I must say my dream of developing my own micro-controlled fuel injection system bolt-on for the charger is still bright, but I'm sure there are solutions out there already. My specialty was the 383 BB because of it's great bullet-proof capabilities and still is.

So, in the last 4 years of me not paying any attention to the Mopar hardware scene, what has changed?

The eddy heads were decent, but couldn't be improved upon much past 300cfm, they lacked what I really liked which were a good exhaust port from what I remember.
My future dreams for the charger are 2.73's in the rear, a manual tranny change to an 833+OD, fuel injection, electric timing/ignition, on top of a 383, no stroker this time, a fairly quiet centrifugal supercharger... basically the ability to get at least 20mpg out of a 383 BB, put out at least 500 RWHP and get over 200mph, a road race car/daily driver. I've forgotten most about all my custom cam details, and head porting plans...even what heads I was going to use.

I'd definitely want aluminum for the higher dynamic CR, so what exists on the market now-days that doesn't require custom headers? I can live with a special intake, but I prefer bolt-on to the block and wet-sump oiler. Something capable of daily driving that won't overheat with power on demand. What are my options? Have vendors started really taking a good look at the Chrysler BB market....or are there extremely cheap new hemi options available?

[tan top]

hello     .. i am  embarrassed to say that i can't remember you from the old site , but that is normal for me  my memory fades in & out on certain  things . that sounds an intresting game plan for your charger ..would like to here more some time

 
Came back a while ago and quickly found that chryco and firefighter and a few others were on top of the game as far as answering questions within 30 seconds of them being posted, so I sort of felt like I was no longer needed.
.

   

look forward to hearing you answers to tecnical stuff    as i soak up every bit of infomation i read from  all the guys on this board ,can never have enough info 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Howdy!!!  Welcome back.

  The Indy EZ heads are just that and perform well.   They require some external oil hookups but that's not that big a deal.   
   Otherwise,  last I saw Neal wasn't that impressed with a set of Edelbrock Victors but I haven't seen the final  outcome.   
   MP started selling a version of aluminum Edelbrocks but with straight plugs for more $.   
   
   As for the 833OD... sounds like you need the Passon 18 spline version.

   Sounds like a fun plan     Has it really been 4 years? 

[aifilaw]

oh yeah, I started on the old board not long after it went up...I'm thinking 2000 ish, 2001

[Brock Samson]

i remember ya'

good to have you back!

"Stratocharger" aka Brock Samson..
i now also have a '71 road runner 340, bone stock... 

[Brad]

Most of the heads, like the victors require offset rockers. Your aspirations are pretty high. The vector heads in a streetable version made over 700 hp. The indys can also produce big numbers. Most will require port work to reach these numbers. I've seen quite a few manufactureres producing head but don't have any knowledge as far as real world performance. I wish you the best of luck. All you need is cash!

[firefighter3931]

Hey, welcome back.....good to see ya posting again.  Congrats on your life changes....marriage and a newborn on the way is exciting stuff ! 

With a huffer on top of your engine you can run just about any head you want.....boost will make lots of power, but you allready know this. 



Ron

[aifilaw]

honestly, boost is a stop-gap measure...

as much as I hate saying this, due to making money not long ago, and a few other reasons I've been spending too much time around the bow-tie's.  Unless I want to spend a LOT of money on a "small block" brand new hemi and mods along with it I can't come close to what some of the others are doing.
LS2 short block $2500
L92 intake, fueld rail etc - $500
L92 Heads (flowing 330 stock in.)(complete) - $1500
cam, A/C, alt, PCM, et cetera
total = $5000 for a naturally aspirated small block bowtie with 500 RWHP naturally aspirated and gets 20+ mpg

That's the price just off of a website...

With electronic fuel management and spark control and a 383 building block I think I can do the same, but not without some serious money into the heads to produce that kind of power N/A.... which is why I'm thinking a supercharger. Turbo's require a lot of funny plumbing, and a roots blower makes too much noise and takes up too much room for my application, hence why I decided I'd like to go centrifugal accessory driven supercharger.

At that point the intake ports on the head are a moot point, they could flow 150cfm for all I care since it's boosted. The exhaust ports on the other hand are where the power will be made...once that's done and some tuning, I think I can meet my goals for a very reasonable price range.

[aifilaw]

So, what are the options out there for specific mopar BB fuel injection, or generic (add to any old engine) fuel injection systems? prices, how they work?

[aifilaw]

bump as I wait for response to most recent question to get answered....

[tan top]

http://www.edelbrock.com/  make two kits for a B block  , been looking in to them my self , just out of curiosity really . may be  one some time in the future . 


 

[is_it_EVER_done?]

aifilaw: Welcome (back?). I've only been here for maybe a year, so of course I don't know you, but I REALLY look forward to your participation as current tech thinking is nearly non existent on Mopar web boards.

I keep thinking that I will get the time to engineere out a GM based FI system (cheap, plentiful, and easy tweeking), I've gathered most of the parts, but so far I can't find enough time. The Mopar world needs that, but it sounds as though you know that the Mopar world is prone to "riot in the streets" if a "post 1950's" option/solution/non-Mopar based upgrade is proposed.

Your statement about spending too much time with the bow-tie boys cracks me up because I can really relate to that. I've been a die hard Chrysler guy my whole life, but just can't deal with conversations about "numbers", "correct", "real cars", etc., so I find I have more in common with my GM friends myself. I have even discovered (to my horror) that I'm starting to know more and more import performance guys (not ricers). Plus neither of those groups rebel at technology changes and improvements. I guess I'm a gearhead first.

I don't know what year Charger you have, but for years I wanted to get a 2nd gen Charger to 200 MPH on the salt (I just want one of the 200 MPH club hats). unfortunately, in researching it I don't think it can be done (with a non Bill Gates budget), as the few 2nd gens that have run in class have found that they are horrible in the aerodynamics area. One guy even added 500 lbs to the front to try to keep the front end down. I guess there was a reason the factory modified them to Superbirds. If you can do it, great. I gave up.

As for changes in the last 4 years? Parts got MUCH stronger and lots cheaper though there hasn't been any quantum leaps. the E-heads can flow in the 325+ neighborhood with a stock port window and CNC job. The new Victors will probably be in the high 370's to low 380's in 6 months to a year or so, but nobody bothers with building a decent manifold that allows you to use a stock hood for ANY head combo. 440Source is planning to introduce a 4.5 inch bore siamesed block for under $1,500 so reasonably priced, reliable builds in the 800+ HP range, or even 1,000 HP+ boosted range will probably be a reality. NOTHING will ever be as cheap as the GM guys have, but we may be able to gain on them for a reasonable amount of money. We also have more body trim parts available, some are excellent quality, though none can be described as cheap, but at least they are available. --- That about sums it up.

I look forward to your posts.

[aifilaw]

I appreciate the info.
Honestly using GM injectors simply drilled into the intake plenums, a fuel rail out of something similar, o2's out of something and a MAP and a position sensor and one or two other things I could probably design a full fuel injection system based on a simple microcontroller.
The trouble is time and tuning...It would end up being mostly trial and error and I would probably go through an engine before I got it right, to say nothing of the expense of wideband o2 sensors.
Once done the whole thing would probably cost $1,200 with a wideband setup, and $700 with stock o2's.

Honestly, I enjoyed carb tuning....but really there had to be a better way, so much tweaking and fiddling with jets and cams and squirter sizes....we live in the modern age, I want my fuel efficiency and power and not have to change spark plugs every 10,000 miles.

Since I have to work for a living I doubt my own fuel injection system will ever become a reality...if I didn't, I would start tomorrow and be done in a couple months.

I have a 3rd gen.

Heads are really where you make the power, I'm really not a fan of the edelbrocks, they are cheap, so for a budget build not too bad, my problem is in stock form they are 290ish cfm, heavily modded they flow in the low 300's...there's something wrong with this....if I spend 30 hours porting something, I want a 50% gain, not a 5-10% gain.

Hopefully someone comes out with intakes to match the victors, or the E-heads.

Mopar guys are prone to rebel when you mention things like crank sensors, and fuel injection....but with the advent of the new hemi's I think it won't be long before they start to come around and realize that there's actually more power and efficiency to be had...obviously no one is going to be throwing it on their drag-race only cars when it's so much cheaper to slap on a carb, or run massive cubes...but they both have their place.

[aifilaw]

edelbrock has no support for the short deck big blocks (383/400)....any other vendors?

I guess I could hack the runners and modify them to fit......

[tan top]

opps  forgot that it was for (383/400)  might  be an idea to experiment  with a  single plane for a low block  motor

[aifilaw]

it wouldn't be hard to modify it for a short deck big block at all....

So really I'm left with a couple questions...
A. why does this setup cost almost $3,000 that's a tremendous markup on parts
B. why is this setup limited to just 450-500 HP.....a simple injector change to larger lb/hr injectors should solve that entirely
C. any other companies offer something that fixes these two?