Patch panel? or fill it ??

[Lord Warlock]

Since I'm not adept with a welder, i lean toward filling it.  I prefer to keep all the original panels if at all possible.  BUT...what would yall recommend? 

If I fill it, I am not using bondo, as I only use body filler for very thin layers as a finish layer to make a smooth panel.  What I would use is POR15 epoxy putty, which is what i used along the sail panel along the rear glass.  That came out almost perfect and is way harder than any body filler would have been. 

On the entire body, there is a couple of small previously repaired sections on the right side, right front fender had some bondo under what i thought was the original paint (it was original everywhere else) the other spot was on the top of the right rear fender where it looked like someone backed over a street sign and it fell on the car.  I had replaced the back bumper 20 years ago, but there was a dent in the original bumper when i got it almost at the edge of the trunklid on the right side.  As far as other areas needing work, there is NO rustout anywhere on the car, the worst section was actually found under the stripe on the drivers side.  The top is solid but thin in a few spots, it is getting por15 treated as soon as i'm comfy with the surface being prepped and stripped. 

Lord Warlock

[Lord Warlock]

Also, as you can see in the painted shot, there is a slight deformation along the body line above the rust, looks like a tire blew and flapped against the panel, not much of a dent, but it is slightly deformed.  How would you go about working it out?  The metal there is fairly solid around the pits but you can't get behind it with a dolly since there is an inner panel blocking access.  Figure i could build the area up a little to make it look right but as stated before I don't like to use filler unless absolutely necessary. 

The rear valence panel needs a little work, it appears to be coming loose along the edges where they meet the corners, both corners are solid, right side has a small dent in it but i think i can get it out and smooth it so it is unnoticeable. 

[41husk]

Bondo is a short term fix, eventualy it will pop out.  If I were keeping the car it is always easier to do it right rather than do it again!!

[RogerDodger]

Definitely go with the patch panel. Moisture from behind will work through any filler in short time.

[hotrod98]

That type of repair will last about two years tops before you start seeing the rust pop back through. Do you really want to have to repaint the quarters? A decent body shop can build that panel from scratch since it's not a real complicated panel. Many times we've ordered those expensive patch panels and then had to rework them anyway. Whenever possible we make the patch panels ourselves. 
I say spend a few dollars now and have someone repair them. Then you won't have the car out of commission later for re-repair and refinish.

[dkn1997]

what about a patch, but use one of the new bonding adhesives? 

[Silver R/T]

if there's any holes moisture will come through and bondo will come off. Unless you go through and weld up any holes and make sure you dont go over 1/4 inch of bondo on that panel.

[Lord Warlock]

Has anyone used the por15 putty and an idea of how long it lasts?  According to their website, and the instructions on the putty, it is designed for filling pits in metal, and small holes.  I used it on the other quarter 10 years ago and it shows no signs of lifting, but the other quarter was in better shape overall than the side pictured.  It had one spot the size of a dime that if you pressed it with your thumb it would bend in.  The side pictured has several small pinholes and one larger spot about 1 inch long where the metal is almost rusted thru.  (where the stripe used to be) I plan on using por15 preventative paint on the inside of the panel if i can reach it inside the trunk and hope i can clear out the old scale and flaking metal.  I bought the por15 to coat the roof of the car which has no rust spots; after the few small areas were ground down with a grinder.

I've used it on the floor and trunk, and during the last inspection there has been no reoccurance of rust there.  I ground out the metal on the sail panel and used the por15 putty to reform the lip in the left side corner, and it still looks pretty good. (no rust-but it was never repainted afterwards) After i finished, I sprayed the car with the hose to see if any moisture found its way into the trunk, and it was dry as a bone.  I still have to remove the arrow trim piece there though to make sure nothing is wrong underneath it.  But if water isn't getting into the trunk it won't be getting to the panel in question unless kicked up from the road, and the car isn't driven in wet conditions (or dry for that matter...lol)

The main problem with having a patch panel cut and welded in, is that the car is not driveable.  It has no brakes at all at this point.  The engine runs fine the tranny works ok, but the only way to stop is to use the emergency brake.  So getting it to a shop is next to impossible unless i have it towed, AAA can do that one way, but i'm not sure if they'll tow it back afterwards.  I can use the cutting wheel on the 4 inch grinder to cut out the panel, or even get a sheet metal cutting tool if i have to, but this is the only visible area that needs it.  (the metal under the battery tray and inner fender rusted out too, but has been patched with fiberglass temporarily)

The car is always kept in dry storage (garaged) in fact i just had a 2 car garage built just to store it.  The only moisture it sees is humidity in the florida air. 

[Lord Warlock]

I'd buy a welder and do it myself, but i really don't want to "learn" on this project- keep in mind this is a keeper car, i've had it for 28 years (my 1st car as a teen).  I plan on painting it myself, having spent the last 3 years learning how to paint on another car to make sure I do a good job on this car.  This paint job is significantly easier than the last one was, (no metalflake, no ghost flames, no hell inspired graphics or airbrushing, and no House of Kolor pearls to worry about, just a simple single stage polyurethane enamel.  (I learned to do metal work and painting when working on the oil rigs in my 20s but never did cars until back in 2002)

[RogerDodger]

If its a "keeper" then you will want to weld it in. When I tackled my first welding job I rented a mig welder from Sunbelt for about $35 a day. I spent an hour or so on practice pieces and then I was ready to go. Take your time and make the patch fit properly. You need to make sure you cut back to good metal or the weld will blow right through and make a hole. Use small welds maybe 1/2" long or so and jump around to a different place as to not heat up the area too much. You don't want to warp it. A little practice and its not too hard.

[squeakfinder]

Eastwood has an adhesive for gluing on patch panels. That way theres no warpage from welding. I haven't tried it but have read the stuff gives a real strong bond.

[Lord Warlock]

I keep hearing folks warning about warping panels, is there a thread here somewhere that has pics of warped panels ...so we know what NOT to do?   

As far as learning to weld, i don't have a problem with that, I got some minor instruction when i was a welders helper on the oil rigs in the 80s, but i have no clue what type of welders they used, units were lincoln, and were about 5 feet long by 5 feet high, diesel powered.  My job was to lug the cable all over the rig, buff the welds, grind the welds, and hang off the rig in weird locations to assist in moving pipes, and using the acetelene torch to cut pipes and panels when necessary.  I can't see myself using a torch on the car though, i'd probably start a fire and burn the car and the garage to the ground.

I don't believe in renting stuff, if i need something i usually buy it...hey, he who dies with the most toys wins...  I gotta get the car presentable enough to get it on the road again, then i can get in contact with area mopar owners again, and maybe find out where to take it for the work that needs doing that i can't do or don't want to take a chance on screwing up.  I doubt i'll be buying any more project cars though.  3 performance cars is plenty, from 3 eras.  60s, 90s and this one.

[squeakfinder]

I've used a a die grinder with cut off wheels to remove sheet metal. It takes a while. You could probably use a cheap 4 an half inch angle grinder with a cut off wheel. Yeah, unless your cutting out a big section of the car thats going to to put you in a awkward position like a trunk floor you don't want to use a torch.