Will Electric Cars Outsell Internal Combustion

[Aero426]

This is a great mechanical walk around of the Porsche Taycan.    For all the talk about simplicity of EV versus ICE, the car is insanely complex.       10 piston brakes, air suspension,  heat exchangers (yep, you can still hole a radiator).     There is no way you would want to own one of these outside of warranty.   The depreciation will be massive and the out of warranty costs will eat you alive, even more than the average Porsche.     Can you imagine the sticker shock of a 10 piston caliper?       On the other hand, at a MSRP of $241,500 (!) for a loaded Taycan Turbo S, who's counting pennies? 

Anyway, it is a very informative video and worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjmj-Ztgdek

[Mike DC]

       
Interesting walk-thru.  

I see insane complexity because they're chasing 10/10ths of performance though.  And a Hellcat drivetrain still looks a lot more complex than that thing.

The battery management may or may not need to be that thorough.  I dunno.   The brakes could be 2-piston calipers and still drive fine.  

[BSB67]

It has nothing to do with the environment for me.  And I don't think it does for most people.  I know several people with hybrid cars and it is not about the environment for any of them.  

I pulled up my own post here. 

I'm traveling with a business associate this last week.  I know him well and would call him a friend. I actually hired him nearly 20 years ago.

He's very conservative and a bit of a man's - man.  Voted for Trump, does not believe in global warming, hunts, has a conceal permit, does dirt biking and quad riding with his boys, and believes that kids should get discipline, including the return of the paddle in school. 

He says to me, "hey, I put a down payment on a Cybertruck."  I say, "really, why?"  He says, "$50,000, stainless steel body, 800 hp, 11,000 lb towing, million mile battery guarantee,  why not?".

Give people what they want at a reasonable price and they will buy it.  Sales volume will have nothing to do with people wanting to save the environment.

[JB400]

Some Ford propaganda:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/02/10/electric-vehicle-owners-more-desirable-dates-according-to-ford-study/

[Aero426]

It has nothing to do with the environment for me.  And I don't think it does for most people.  I know several people with hybrid cars and it is not about the environment for any of them.  

I pulled up my own post here. 

I'm traveling with a business associate this last week.  I know him well and would call him a friend. I actually hired him nearly 20 years ago.

He's very conservative and a bit of a man's - man.  Voted for Trump, does not believe in global warming, hunts, has a conceal permit, does dirt biking and quad riding with his boys, and believes that kids should get discipline, including the return of the paddle in school. 

He says to me, "hey, I put a down payment on a Cybertruck."  I say, "really, why?"  He says, "$50,000, stainless steel body, 800 hp, 11,000 lb towing, million mile battery guarantee,  why not?".

Give people what they want at a reasonable price and they will buy it.  Sales volume will have nothing to do with people wanting to save the environment.

Agree with all you've noted.   Except the Cybertruck won't be $50,000.   It will be $55,000 or better yet $60,000 optimally configured, which is the bait and switch they pulled on the so called $35,000 Model 3 that you realistically could not buy.    And it will be late.   

[odcics2]

When the Viper was coming out it was going to be 35K.  Man, we were all excited at the Tech Center!

Well, that never happened....      

[Mytur Binsdirti]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno&t=779s

And a follow-up....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJL9MasBFvM

[Aero426]

 Porsche Tincan burns.     

https://insideevs.com/news/399288/porsche-taycan-burns-down-florida/

EV fan boyz are quick to point out that ICE cars burn too.    Yeah, but they don't self-immolate as new cars.    Because of the batteries, an EV fire is very difficult to control. 

[Ghoste]

I know its coming and Im the dinosaur watching the meteor in the sky get bigger but Im not a fan of the electric movement.  I think the downside to them will turn up after a decade or so of their takeover.  Who knows?

[BSB67]

I know its coming and Im the dinosaur watching the meteor in the sky get bigger but Im not a fan of the electric movement.  I think the downside to them will turn up after a decade or so of their takeover.  Who knows?

No doubt there will be down sides.  But people (maybe not everyone) will find upsides too.  And, as time goes on, EVs will get better.   I'll say it again,  in 1980, did anyone think they'd ever see a muscle car again?   Things will continue to change, and electric cars are probably not the forever solution either.  But I'll probably not be around long enough to see what's next. 

[b5blue]

In the 90's I argued with others who said it (EVs) hasn't been done because it can't be done. They are all eating crow now. 

[Ponch ®]

I know its coming and Im the dinosaur watching the meteor in the sky get bigger but Im not a fan of the electric movement.  I think the downside to them will turn up after a decade or so of their takeover.  Who knows?

No doubt there will be down sides.  But people (maybe not everyone) will find upsides too.  And, as time goes on, EVs will get better.   I'll say it again,  in 1980, did anyone think they'd ever see a muscle car again?   Things will continue to change, and electric cars are probably not the forever solution either.  But I'll probably not be around long enough to see what's next.  

Look, there are always those guys who will resist anything new or potentially life changing bc they feel it threatens their way of life or values.

Ask around here and you'll find out that there are still several dudes who won't let go of their 2002 era flip phones bc smart phones are too distracting, or complicated, or expensive, or emit radiation, or spy on you (they're probably right about that one). But cant argue about the awesomeness of being able to bet on horse races, order a pizza, AND watch pr0n with the same device.

[Mike DC]

Look, there are always those guys who will resist anything new or potentially life changing bc they feel it threatens their way of life or values.

Ask around here and you'll find out that there are still several dudes who won't let go of their 2002 era flip phones bc smart phones are too distracting, or complicated, or expensive, or emit radiation, or spy on you (they're probably right about that one). But cant argue about the awesomeness of being able to bet on horse races, order a pizza, AND watch pr0n with the same device.

"Hi, I'm a time traveler from 1950.  So, in 2020 do you have free atomic-powered electricity like we thought?"

"No, power prices actually went up.  But we got unlimited free porn now."

                 

[Ghoste]

It isnt that I feel threatened by it Ponch.  I just happen to like what I have and I enjoy driving my own car.  When gas goes away I wont turn suicidal and become a crotchety old prick whining for the good old days but I will miss playing with the old junk.

[Mike DC]

It isnt that I feel threatened by it Ponch.  I just happen to like what I have and I enjoy driving my own car.  When gas goes away I wont turn suicidal and become a crotchety old prick whining for the good old days but I will miss playing with the old junk.

I just don't see the reason to worry.  Gasoline isn't going anywhere.  There is way, way WAY too much inertia in favor of using it.  (How many middle-eastern wars have we fought?  How many military bases do we have in oil-bearing countries/regions?  These are long term investments.)

Will we reduce gasoline usage in the future?  Yes.

Will we swear off it and make it illegal?  Hell no.  Probably not for decades.  


You can still legally get leaded gasoline or R-12 freon if you hunt around for it.  Those were both officially phased out of production cars before some of the guys on this forum were born.  In north America there isn't even serious discussion of phasing out gasoline yet.  

   

[Ponch ®]

It isnt that I feel threatened by it Ponch.  I just happen to like what I have and I enjoy driving my own car.  When gas goes away I wont turn suicidal and become a crotchety old prick whining for the good old days but I will miss playing with the old junk.

I didnt intend to single you out, my bad if it came off that way.

But look through the 16 pages (so far) of posts in this thread and about 2/3 of them are about how EVs and hybrids are part of a vast millennial-deep state-tree hugger-socialist-liberal-Silicon Valley-LGBTQ-Kommiefornia agenda to undermine 'Murrica and our manhood. Meanwhile Im like "shit, I just need something for my daily commute that uses little or no gas and looks good so I can have more money to spend on my guns and rebuild my big block."

[Aero426]

Meanwhile Im like "shit, I just need something for my daily commute that uses little or no gas and looks good so I can have more money to spend on my guns and rebuild my big block."

I feel that the majority of non-Tesla EV buyers share the same sentiment.     It's not a technology or "save the planet" purchasing decision.

[Ponch ®]

Meanwhile Im like "shit, I just need something for my daily commute that uses little or no gas and looks good so I can have more money to spend on my guns and rebuild my big block."

I feel that the majority of non-Tesla EV buyers share the same sentiment.     It's not a technology or "save the planet" purchasing decision.

For me its about 45% practicality / 45% Technology (I do like new gadgets generally, if one happens to be a car, so be it) / 5% conspicuous consumption / 5% saving the planet. And I love Teslas - I didnt buy one for myself for reasons I've mentioned in prior posts (range not long enough for how much I drive, etc) but I'm pretty sure Mrs. Ponch will be getting one when the lease on her current car is up.

[Kern Dog]

But look through the 16 pages (so far) of posts in this thread and about 2/3 of them are about how EVs and hybrids are part of a vast millennial-deep state-tree hugger-socialist-liberal-Silicon Valley-LGBTQ-Kommiefornia agenda to undermine 'Murrica and our manhood.

Uhhh....MEANWHILE, the mayor of Chico and several other assclown politicians have petitioned Gov Gruesome to accelerate the phase out of fossil fuel use for vehicles in this state.
Fuck those guys. I'd tell those fuckers to their faces that they are idiots.

[Mike DC]

 
That's Cali voter preferences in action.   Blame your neighbors. 

[b5blue]

Everyone is a "snowflake" nowadays, just some are sitting on a pee wallering hunk of dog crap. (So the outlook is not so good.)