727 Torqueflite issues

[phantom]

Hi.
About to finish my four year build. Engine is started a few times, running to working temperature and so on. The trans was scooped up with the engine when i bought it 2 years ago, it sat on a stock 440 HP 4bbl. Dont know what kind of converter it has, but i assume it is a stock one.

I drained it and changed the filter before installing it. The new filter was smaller and had an additional hole in it. Was told it was no problem. I drained the converter too, but didnt refill it before installing it, because i was told the pump would refill immediately when i started the car in neutral. So i poured 5 quarts in it upon first startup, and added 2 more while it was running in neutral. It didnt run long enough to get warm, so i didnt check the dip stick. After that startup, the oil is now 1" above the "full" mark, and seeps through the O-ring.

Is this caused by drain back from the converter? Because on the 2nd startup, i measured the oil level, and it was fine, all though it wasnt warmed up.

Also, i had to move the car around a little bit this winter, and started it in neutral, and it moved around fine. Today i went to start it to drive it up on a trailer for glass install, and i forgot about the startup in neutral procedure. I started it in park, put it in 1st gear, but i had to rev it to almost 3000rpm to even get it to move. Both forward and backwards. Why was that?
Was the converter drained? Did i break something?   

[John_Kunkel]

Yes, converter drain back is the cause of "morning sickness" i. e. slipping when first started in Park. This is a perfectly normal condition and can be rectified by simply starting in Neutral. This is also the reason the measured fluid level won't be correct unless idling in Neutral, the converter refills rapidly in Neutral but only slowly in Park.

The higher fluid level after sitting a while shouldn't cause any leakage but weak seals will show up more often at the higher level; case in point, your dipstick tube O ring.

Also, the use of the 2-hole filter after '65 leaves a wide open hole that allows some fluid to bypass the filter...not a good idea.

[phantom]

Thanks
Do you recommend changing the filter before i start using the car?

[myk]

"Morning sickness" is normal?

[birdsandbees]

I can go out and start my Bird right now, sitting without running since May 2016 and it will immediately move. When did "morning sickness" become normal??   

[John_Kunkel]

"Normal" enough for the factory to have issued several service letters over the years. There are mods that can be done to refill the converter in Park, with a 40+ year old trans who knows what has been done to it.

[phantom]

Well...kinda embarrasing. The trans was low on fluids. Stupid me didnt know about converter drain, so i thought i overfilled the trans, so i pulled out about 0,7 liters to stop it from seeping through the O-ring. Well ,you learn every day   Started it in neutral, warmed it up and filled to correct amount. Tried it, drove off just fine. But, now i have to deal with this issue. Google says worn pump seal could be the reason for converter drain? 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Its not just the old torqueflites. The rh, re and 518s do it too, clear up to the end of production in..... 2003? Maybe later.

[myk]

That's odd.  When I first got my Charger in 1994 it did not have morning sickness.  After the first rebuild the morning sickness appeared and it's been like that ever since...

[Captain D]

...not to take over the thread, but just to clarify:

- It's best to start the car in neutral instead of park...?
- When checking the transmission fluid level, the car is to be in neutral, correct?
- And, anyone here ever have a lil' ATF seep from the rear transmission freeze plug before?

[myk]

1.  Yes.  That's what I've learned from this thread. 

2.  In neutral with engine running.

3.  No seep on mine.  Well, not yet...

[Captain D]

Thanks man for the reply - hmm, I'll start my 69' automatic 727 in neutral from here on out then. I've just always done it in park since that's how I've always started my daily driver, lol. I hope that by starting the Charger in park it didn't cause any issues...

Well, jinxed myself - the freeze plug on the very rear of the transmission housing is seeping a few drops. I applied a lil' sealant to 'bandade' it. Anyone know where I can get a replacement for my 69' Charger 727 automatic torque flight unit? Tempted to simply use a two-part epoxy & simply seal in my existing one to keep from losing any fluid. The crazy thing is that there is a solid aluminum tab covering about a 1/3rd of it, so I can even get my skinny fingers to seal all of it off. I'll see if I can post a pic - wish that tab wasn't in front...would make it a whole lot easier to get to...

Thanks for any replies & didn't mean to hijack the thread...

[John_Kunkel]

That's not a soft plug, it's the end of the shaft that the rear band lever pivots on; it has an O ring seal but, because of the tab, the tail needs to come off to replace the O ring.

Seal the end of the shaft with RTV but be sure the fluid level is below the shaft or the leaking fluid will prevent the RTV from adhering.

[Captain D]

Thanks John for your reply,

It sounds as if the tranny may have to be pulled (and / or a lot of stuff removed) simply to swap out an O-ring, which is why I can see RTV as being a good alternative. The seepage isn't too bad, so in a pinch - I cleaned the area using brake-cleaner and applied a lil' of 'The Right Stuff' (the Permatex that sets in just a minute or two). I was able to get a thin layer on most of it, but the dang 'tab' prevents any fingers from easily reaching the last 1/3rd of it along the very top. I'll have to take it to a shop that has a lift and see if a brush, etc. can be utilized to better coat that upper 1/3rd portion (under the *$#@ tab), perhaps.  

Thank you for your reply and info!